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Old July 29 2014, 02:46 PM   #241
Marc
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
It looks like there is a campaign beginning to encourage the unemployed to turn up at the offices of LNP politicians looking for work.
I believe that many of those who support this sort of bullshit the LNP seem to like do so from the safety of positions knowing they're very unlikely to have ever go through it.

I suspect there are more than few government MPs and staffers who have little real world job experience because they've gotten in politics.

There's one person I know who didn't pass yr12, spent a couple of years building computers for the family business then back to and adult entrance school doing yr12 again twice, got into law at university and involved with young Liberals, ran as a candidate in the state election (as burner in a safe Labor seat), then became a staffer for a Senator then onto Canberra so never had a job where he's had to compete with 1000s of others.

Bit like the Christopher Pyne.
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Old July 29 2014, 04:05 PM   #242
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

Marc wrote: View Post
Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
It looks like there is a campaign beginning to encourage the unemployed to turn up at the offices of LNP politicians looking for work.
I believe that many of those who support this sort of bullshit the LNP seem to like do so from the safety of positions knowing they're very unlikely to have ever go through it.

I suspect there are more than few government MPs and staffers who have little real world job experience because they've gotten in politics.

There's one person I know who didn't pass yr12, spent a couple of years building computers for the family business then back to and adult entrance school doing yr12 again twice, got into law at university and involved with young Liberals, ran as a candidate in the state election (as burner in a safe Labor seat), then became a staffer for a Senator then onto Canberra so never had a job where he's had to compete with 1000s of others.

Bit like the Christopher Pyne.
Did he get a scholarship like Tony Abbott's daughter?
Was his father mates with the dean of a government funded university? Because that would be totally fair.

The problem with making the unemployed work for the dole is that I'm pretty sure that none of those jobs will give the unemployed any skills. I may be mistaken though. I hope so.

And Australia are back on top in the Commonwealth Games.
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Old July 29 2014, 09:10 PM   #243
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

My son, who is on a disability pension and has returned to TAFE, will lose his pensioner education supplement as a result of this budget. I worked out that my son would have to study for 38 years to get the same amount of money as Abbott's daughter's scholarship was worth.
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Old July 29 2014, 10:42 PM   #244
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Marc wrote: View Post
Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
It looks like there is a campaign beginning to encourage the unemployed to turn up at the offices of LNP politicians looking for work.
I believe that many of those who support this sort of bullshit the LNP seem to like do so from the safety of positions knowing they're very unlikely to have ever go through it.

I suspect there are more than few government MPs and staffers who have little real world job experience because they've gotten in politics.

There's one person I know who didn't pass yr12, spent a couple of years building computers for the family business then back to and adult entrance school doing yr12 again twice, got into law at university and involved with young Liberals, ran as a candidate in the state election (as burner in a safe Labor seat), then became a staffer for a Senator then onto Canberra so never had a job where he's had to compete with 1000s of others.

Bit like the Christopher Pyne.
Did he get a scholarship like Tony Abbott's daughter?
Was his father mates with the dean of a government funded university? Because that would be totally fair.
Nah just knew the right people to suck up to.

The problem with making the unemployed work for the dole is that I'm pretty sure that none of those jobs will give the unemployed any skills. I may be mistaken though. I hope so.
Pretty much yeah - it will be stuff like paint retirement homes, road side cleanup etc etc nothing that will actually help the vast majority get a job.

In fact the was a case in Melbourne if memory serves where a retirement home decided not pay a maintenance business to do some work - instead got it got free labor for a wtfd program.

Australia will probably follow the U.K example where supermarkets sacked workers and replaced them with free labour until the rules were changed.

Hell the new rules will also piss off business because they'll have to deal with a flood of applications for which there are no jobs or where the people are unqualiified.

They are going to spend $5.1billion on this shit when there's no research to show it achieved anything when the Howard government put in place or that people won't be able to simply say they sent of applications to X,Y and Z when they didn't

For those who do send applications for legitmate jobs won't have anything to show because of the trend now to only response to applicants chosen for interview.

And Australia are back on top in the Commonwealth Games.
Probably helping to distract people from the stink the emanating from the government.
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Old July 29 2014, 10:45 PM   #245
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

I know a couple people who turned 18 recently and never got called back to the jobs they had been working part time at for several years (fast food in all cases). Because now they have to be paid more.
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Old July 29 2014, 11:14 PM   #246
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

Many years ago I was told I was too old for job that I applied for at a newsagency. I was 17 years old at the time but they wanted a 15 or 16 year old.
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Old July 30 2014, 01:25 AM   #247
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

Well, I can talk a little about WFTD (or as someone else said, wtfd, that works).

I lost my job back in 2003, my company lost a big support contract and didn't need so many people, so I became surplus to requirements. After the relevant amount of time job-hunting (and I wasn't sitting on my arse doing nothing), I had to join a wtfd scheme, so reluctantly did. After I'd been there a few months, the coordinator got another job, and I stuck my hand up for it, taking over the project we were working on. Each 'course' was run over 6 months, moe or less, and the group would have a project to focus on. More about them shortly.

The people were a real mix. Some really liked the opportunity and did stuff with it, learnt new skills. Some were there mostly for the social interaction and fulfilling their obligations. A couple didn't want to be there and abused it, playing computer games all day. I had to restrict net access as it would have been all day surfing from everyone (and side note: I decided I did not really like being The Man). One girl used to scowl, fold her arms and sit in the corner and say, "Huh, I'm not doin' anything!" I tried to reach her but she wasn't having any of it. She became a disruption, others could see it, and moved her out to Salvos sorting second hand clothes, their version of a punishment detail. Another guy was even more disruptive, and may have stolen a camera, though I oouldn't say for sure. He was moved to a real punishment detail, roadside litter pickup. But, I must make clear, they were the exceptions. Most everyone else chipped in to a greater or lesser degree and added somethiong.

The project I took over was a CD on local history, using as much free stuff as we could glom from local libraries and historical groups, plus an expedition taking photos of local interest spots. Using basic HTML, a little graphic design and user friendly organisation, it turned out well enough that I could make copies of it to give to local schools and libraries. The next project was a two-hander, v2 of the history CD and a set of postcards of the local area. The CD was much improved by he extra work done on it. I'll post some pics in the pics thread later (have to scan them). Some of these turned out fantastic. One guy was a complete dill IMO and completely obsessed with the whole car/hotrod/racing thing, but he had a fantastic eye for a photgraph, and his were the best. For a bunch of people with no formal arts training, they worked out really well. The final project was a local magazine, but it covered arts, music, dining, history and so on. Only produced the one issue, but if we'd been able to find advertisers it could definitely have worked. Then the company I worked for lost the contract, and I was ironically out of a job, though found another one seoon after.

So, some perople just cruised through it, filling their 'obligation'. But I think, or I like to think, some got something out of it. A couple went back to school/college to get skills based on what they'd done, and one girl joined a local radi station as an intern, ran her own programme for a while, and organises local music festivals (there's a whole other story about her, but another time). So, it wasn't an entire waste of time, because at least the basic idea of the project had some thought behind it, and I pushed these perople to take something away from it, not sit there like vegies and playing Jewel all day (as happened on a couple of other projects I filled in a few days for). Was it ideal? No, far from it. Did it have possibilities? Yes, if the projects were right. One project was in a region where older male unemployment was high (along with suicide), so they set up a Mens' Shed, which is still goiing AFAIK, plus they also had a project that built mobile barbecues for charity, big things on wheels.

Am I in favour of wtfd? NO. BUT... witn the proviso that if the projects were like these, which contributed to the community and the participants can go away having learned something, than maybe - it becomes a jumping off point to go to other things, whether a job with a few new skills or to tertiary education. But those shitty 'make work' projects? Hell, no! Piss them off tout suite! Am I better off having done it, on both sides of the divide? Not sure, don't think so. But I feel okay that I tried to help people bettrer themselves rather than falling into the trap of the unemployment cycle.

There's much more, a lot of stories, but that's enough I think. Maybe some pics from thre postcard set this evening, if anyone's interested.
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Old July 30 2014, 02:24 AM   #248
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

I did enjoy the one and only Work for the Dole project i did. It was historical documents and I mainly transcribes documents for the Tasmanian Execution Database. I did this as a voluntary WFTD as I was over the age that I had to do WFTD.

It didn't lead to me getting an actual job but I do believe it did help me get to the job interview stage as on several occasions I was asked about the project which I never identified as being a WFTD. I think the main reason I didn't get the jobs I was interviewed for was there was already someone in the job.

Another good WFTD project was the Derwent Riverkeeper which was run by a neighbour of mine, Dave Turner. It consisted of 1) removing rubbish along the shore and in the water 2) collecting and destroying invasive Japanese sea-stars 3) creating artificial reefs 4) replanting kelp beds. Participates learnt boat skills, about ecology etc Most of them really enjoyed the work. However in the end Dave gave up due to trouble getting funding and because of red tape - especially after being told he was no longer allowed to use boats because of the cost of insurance.
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Old July 30 2014, 03:16 AM   #249
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

My friend who is on benefits says young unemployed people must apply for 30 jobs a month. It takes me a couple of days to write a serious job application and a lot of mental effort.
Employers for unskilled jobs are just going to get annoyed by all the pro-forma applications that come in.

I'm glad to hear that some WFTD schemes actually serve a purpose and are not just clearing up the roadside. I see that sort of 'work' is done by prisoners on chain gangs in the American South.
As someone who has been unemployed I would like to see the schemes have a definitive work skills outcome. Say if you were painting retirement villages, or government housing. Have a person in charge teaching you how to paint and sand properly. Or have people man the counters in Salvos to give them customer service experience.

I'd love each politician that raves on how good these schemes are - I'm looking at you Pine and Abbott (or one of their children) spend a week working for the dole, living on the money and writing out 30 job applications pro-rata.
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Old July 30 2014, 04:45 AM   #250
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

It is only rumour but there are claims being made that Eric Abetz's staff are already hanging up on people who are phoning to see if there is any work in Mr Abetz's office. They probably are yet to receive the first of the posted resumes. There is some talk of the unemployed hiring of a bus to pick them up from small east coast towns of Tasmania so that they can all ask for jobs in the building in which Mr Abetz works (he isn't the only potential employer in the building).

Since yesterday more than 2000 people have joined the Facebook page Sending job applications to Senator Abetz.

Last edited by Miss Chicken; July 30 2014 at 05:08 AM.
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Old July 30 2014, 07:26 AM   #251
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

It takes me a couple of days to write a serious job application and a lot of mental effort. Employers for unskilled jobs are just going to get annoyed by all the pro-forma applications that come in.
It's the only way you an get through that many applications, just format each cover letter a little to personalise it to that company. I also ended up with 2 or 3 resumes that targeted different job markets, emphasising certain skills.
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Last edited by Australis; July 30 2014 at 01:31 PM.
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Old July 30 2014, 01:40 PM   #252
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

Australis wrote: View Post
It takes me a couple of days to write a serious job application and a lot of mental effort. Employers for unskilled jobs are just going to get annoyed by all the pro-forma applications that come in.
It's the only way you an get through that many applications, just format each cover letter a little to personalise it to that company. I also ended up with 2 or 3 resumes that targeted different job markets, emphasising certain skills.

There are now reports that any one who simply fires off pro-forma resumes to tick the boxes off will face further sanction.

That would make it even harder if you have to find 40 jobs a month to apply for that are within your skillset/abilities or that you have qualifications for.
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Old July 31 2014, 12:38 AM   #253
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

^ Well, shit.

In other news, nothing dodgy going on here:
http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...air-work-claim
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Old July 31 2014, 03:23 AM   #254
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

This government makes me sick. A bunch of arseholes. Some people may need have their money controlled - but not everyone on a welfare benefit.
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Old July 31 2014, 03:51 AM   #255
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Re: The Down Under Lounge

Marc wrote: View Post
Australis wrote: View Post
It takes me a couple of days to write a serious job application and a lot of mental effort. Employers for unskilled jobs are just going to get annoyed by all the pro-forma applications that come in.
It's the only way you an get through that many applications, just format each cover letter a little to personalise it to that company. I also ended up with 2 or 3 resumes that targeted different job markets, emphasising certain skills.

There are now reports that any one who simply fires off pro-forma resumes to tick the boxes off will face further sanction.

That would make it even harder if you have to find 40 jobs a month to apply for that are within your skillset/abilities or that you have qualifications for.
Jobs I apply for have at least 10 requirements, sometimes up to 20 and you have to address each of these in the cover letter excusing how you've missed some of the requirements. Some jobs adds say give an example of how you did A to show X and B to show Y so its no standard letter there.

So I can imagine how it is to do 40 of these a month.

Why doesn't a head kicker like Christopher Pyne show how he'd write out 40 individual letters a month, if he thinks its so easy?
And not get depressed at all the rejections.

England are back on top at the Games.
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