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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 29 2014, 03:47 AM   #316
C.E. Evans
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

T'Girl wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Only TOS really had characters that were emotional about their ship and tended to regard her as a special person, IMO.
When Sisko lost the Defiant it was basically "meh" have to go through the paperwork of getting a replacement.

Picard also never seemed really invested in the Enterprise Dee, it was a tool to accomplish his various missions. I got the impression that the Stargazer was far more important to Picard.

Janeway and Archer the same.

Kirk loved his ship.

Don't forget Scotty. He loved that ship too and was more willing to fight a room full of Klingons to protect her honor more so than his captain's.
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Old July 29 2014, 04:07 AM   #317
Cyke101
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.
Which was for the best seeing as the Borg assimilated half of it a year after he got it, so no having to gun down assimilated children.
Lily: Oh no, Jean-Luc! You gunned down another member of the crew!
Picard: That was Ensign Lynch, Jr. The little anklebiter had it coming!
Lily: But he wasn't...
Picard: He WAS assimilated! Just early on-set assimilation.
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Old July 29 2014, 06:40 AM   #318
Mytran
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

^ Love it!

I reckon they could get away with gunning down children quite easily - just refer to them as "younglings" instead

Of course, none of this would have been necessary if Jean-Luc would just separate the damn saucer before going into battle! That way they could still have the dark and moody bridge (battle bridge) and in fact all the other scenes as well!
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Old July 29 2014, 10:23 AM   #319
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.
In the majority of episodes set aboard the Enterprise Dee, the children were out of sight and out of mind. I think the Enterprise E also had children on board, they just weren't a part of the story.

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Old July 29 2014, 11:51 AM   #320
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.
In the majority of episodes set aboard the Enterprise Dee, the children were out of sight and out of mind. I think the Enterprise E also had children on board, they just weren't a part of the story.


I have to agree. The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.
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Old July 29 2014, 01:48 PM   #321
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

I'm inclined to think that during the Dominion War, the practice of having regular passengers aboard active duty Starfleet vessels was either suspended or outright cancelled. In the years since, though, it might have been reinstated, but I never saw the practice as being something that more than a small percentage of the fleet took part in anyway.
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Old July 29 2014, 01:52 PM   #322
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.
We know that Picard wasn't keen on having children on board a starship from early on in TNG. I got the impression that at the end of the series he had got used to the idea.

As the Enterprise E is quite a bit smaller than the "D" I had always assumed that the "E" didn't have families onboard. If it didn't have children onboard I'm sure that would have been a relief to Picard.
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Old July 29 2014, 05:05 PM   #323
Hartzilla2007
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Disco wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Picard might have preferred the Ent-E...there didn't seem to be any children aboard.
In the majority of episodes set aboard the Enterprise Dee, the children were out of sight and out of mind. I think the Enterprise E also had children on board, they just weren't a part of the story.


I have to agree. The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.
Except for the peacful era TNG was in which allowed for the families on starships idea ended when the Borg destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and the Dominion kicked Starfleet's ass when they made first contact.

Seeing as the incidents pointed out the idiocy of that policy Starfleet probably abandoned it about the time it finally sunk in that they were a military organization.
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Old July 29 2014, 06:36 PM   #324
Lance
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Disco wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
In the majority of episodes set aboard the Enterprise Dee, the children were out of sight and out of mind. I think the Enterprise E also had children on board, they just weren't a part of the story.


I have to agree. The E was almost as large as the D so no reason why there wouldn't be children aboard.
Except for the peacful era TNG was in which allowed for the families on starships idea ended when the Borg destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and the Dominion kicked Starfleet's ass when they made first contact.

Seeing as the incidents pointed out the idiocy of that policy Starfleet probably abandoned it about the time it finally sunk in that they were a military organization.
I take T'Girl's point on board. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that there aren't families on the 1701-E, off-screen. Nothing to suggest it, but nothing to disprove it either.

'Voyager' obliterated the idea of there being families on the ship, a big deal was made out of Naomi Wildman. But the TNG features and DS9 never did (overtly).

So maybe the USS Voyager never had families on board, but that could be down to the size of the ship or the idea that it wasn't a "long range" space mission sort of vessel. Families might be outside her mission statement (which was probably shorter tour-of-duties anyway, so no-one needed to bring their folks with them, if returning to base was always intended to be more frequent).

Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.

So really, I'm gonna call B.S. on the whole "The Borg and the Dominion made Starfleet realize that having families around was a bad idea" theory.
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Old July 29 2014, 07:24 PM   #325
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Lance wrote: View Post
Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.
Except DS9 was a heavily armed space fortress by that time so the concept wasn't that insane over there.

So really, I'm gonna call B.S. on the whole "The Borg and the Dominion made Starfleet realize that having families around was a bad idea" theory.
Mostly becuase you believe imaginary civilians which were never seen or mentioned were just hiding on the Enterprise-E.
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Old July 29 2014, 07:28 PM   #326
C.E. Evans
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Lance wrote: View Post
Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away.
Miles and Keiko made that decision themselves. They didn't return until things were a bit more stable (after DS9 was taken back from the Dominion) about a year later. But unlike most Starfleet vessels, DS9 had a sizeable civilian population from the start.
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Old July 29 2014, 08:20 PM   #327
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.
Except DS9 was a heavily armed space fortress by that time so the concept wasn't that insane over there.
To add, DS9 was also by a planet that was (on paper, at least) protected from the ravages of war in case the Dominion tried anything funny, so civilians could flee to Bajor in case of emergency. It's a luxury that starships in the gulfs of space don't have.
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Old July 29 2014, 09:09 PM   #328
Hartzilla2007
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Indeed to your last point, Deep Space Nine was at the frontline of the Dominion conflict, but nobody told Miles to send Keiko, Molly and Kirayoshi away. Which seems to indicate to me that the 'military families' concept begun with TNG was obviously still in play in that series.
Except DS9 was a heavily armed space fortress by that time so the concept wasn't that insane over there.
To add, DS9 was also by a planet that was (on paper, at least) protected from the ravages of war in case the Dominion tried anything funny, so civilians could flee to Bajor in case of emergency. It's a luxury that starships in the gulfs of space don't have.
Plus the whole needing a considerably large fleet to take a place with starbase level defenses down as opposed to the one or two ships needed to win against a starship.
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Old July 29 2014, 09:27 PM   #329
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Except for the peacful era TNG was in which allowed for the families on starships idea ended when the Borg destroyed 39 Starfleet ships and the Dominion kicked Starfleet's ass when they made first contact.
If Renee had be living with his uncle on the dangerious starship, instead of with his mother and father on peaceful safe Earth, he'd probably still be alive.

... it finally sunk in that they were a military organization.
I grew up on military installations, plenty of children running around. the base where I was born wasn't that far from the Fundy Gap and likely was a prime target during the cold war.

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Old July 29 2014, 10:05 PM   #330
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Re: The Enterprise-E is so ugly

Enterprise-E seems (from what we see of it) to not be on a long term exploration mission. Every time we see it, it is in Federation space on some other kind of mission. It may not have been designed as a long range explorer like the Galaxy-class, and thus not need to have been fitted for long term habitability by families.

Also, I'd hate to think what ramming the Scimitar would have done to all those family units quarters in the last film, if the crew still had their families on board.
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