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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 29 2014, 12:53 AM   #16
2takesfrakes
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"Haven"

It's the only Lwaxana Troi episode that's watchable. Some over-the-top moments, too, like the talking treasure chest and Yar's hairdo ...
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Old July 29 2014, 01:10 AM   #17
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Pondwater wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
"The Royale" is my favorite much-maligned episode. It's cheesy in parts, but has a cool story at the center of it, and some of the jokes are top notch. Watching Data clear the craps table, Worf replying to the request for room service ("No!"), and Noble Willingham's character (Texas) made for a fun episode. Plus, it was the first episode I ever owned on VHS.
That's one of my favorites too!! Although, my all time for the same of this thread is "The Neutral Zone".

Especially when Sonny asks to watch television to see how the Braves are doing. "Still finding ways to lose" I think of that every time they lose real bad.
"The Neutral Zone" is my 2nd favorite season one episode, behind "11001001." Sonny just makes that whole episode.
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Old July 29 2014, 01:17 AM   #18
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"The Neutral Zone" is my favorite first season episode.
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Old July 29 2014, 01:26 AM   #19
BillJ
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
"The Neutral Zone" is my favorite first season episode.
Not my favorite, but definitely top five.
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Old July 29 2014, 06:34 AM   #20
GalaxyX
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"The Neutral Zone" is maligned?

I thought it was a cool episode, if a little slow. I feel bad for Troi. Some banker goof was able to read the Romulans better than she could, and he's not empathic

Justice was kind of cool for the god floaty thing up there with the "BOOM! State the purpose!!" The rest was pretty bad.

Code of Honor was a good TOS style story, but somewhere along the way someone thought it was a good idea to have a cast of all black people, and make them be tribal jerks.

Shades of Grey sucked because it was all clips from previous episodes.

For me, what made me hate it was the fact that Riker is supposed to be dreaming this shit, but we get the perspective of him in the 3rd person, and sometimes from other crewmembers (). I did like the bit about Data superspeed catching that evil evil root before it stung Geordi. And the joke about Riker's dad and the snake was funny. I think it was the first time I heard it.

The Royale kicked ass! Only things that sucked, showing pieces of a NASA rocket only to be let down that no other cool NASA stuff would show up. Also they should have found the guy alive, although I'm not sure it could have been done realistically (how would someone turn out after spending 38 years in a repeating holodeck novel of the Royale where you can't even talk to people because they are programmed to do their particular tasks in the novel?)

Haven's only cool bit was the "Haven" ship. That was a cool Probert design (as all his stuff usually is). The rest sucked donkey balls.

Masks was a cool Sci-Fi concept that somehow got lost in the implementation of the episode. I think the problem was in the fact that it dealt too much with the myth rather than the fact about that particular race. I did enjoy Data's "Masaka is waiting!" bit

Tin Man rocked!! I had no idea this one was maligned either. I had no issues with the guest star. I think he did well. How you you handle constantly hearing crowds of thoughts of people, even while sleeping? You'd probably be on edge all the time, just like that guy was, and would jump at the change to make the voices stop

Only thing I didn't like was how incredibly powerful the Tin Man was. It blew up a Romulan Bird of Prey like popping a balloon, and fried half the Enterprise's computer. I have a hard time believing an organic creature could develop abilities like that. But hey, who knows.

Sub Rosa is watchable for 2 things: "Dae nat light da caendle!!" (), and watching Beverly have an orgasm ( )
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Old July 29 2014, 12:49 PM   #21
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"Code of Honor" is one of my favorites. It was pretty cool having a cast of majority dark-skinned individuals....but after the whining of alleged racism - primarily from white viewers - we never really saw a planet that was majority dark-skinned again. We only got a mention of the Ligonians in "First Duty."

Of course, no one had problems with planets that had aliens visibly portrayed by white individuals in the franchise after that episode.

Some of the cries of racism are - which are, ironically, racist cries themselves are:
*"They're too tribal!" (So, basically, South Americans, Africans, and Asians still in tribes today better civilize themselves!)

*"How dare that black Lutan have an interest in white Tasha Yar! That's racist!" (Of course, no one has a problem with every Asian woman being paired with a white male in the Trek franchise, but it's a problem when a black male is opposite a non-black woman).

(That's the problem when you have primarily white males behind the scenes, rather than a diverse group, calling the shots).

I would have liked to have seen the Ligonians in a more stronger story in later seasons...but, alas, in the Berman-era even the extras were primarily white - just look at Enterprise.

"Lonely Among Us" is another favorite I watched a few days back. And, Data mimicking his idea of Sherlock Holmes was hilarious...

I have a few from Season 1 I will be watching...
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Old July 29 2014, 12:54 PM   #22
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I think naming "The Royale" is cheating, I don't think it's actually much-maligned That said, I like it myself. A lot.
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Old July 29 2014, 01:21 PM   #23
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"A Night in Sickba-" - wait, TNG, sorry.

I admit I haven't seen it in decades, but based on the hilarity of the AV Club's review, "Sub Rosa" sounds like a lot of fun:
“I’m going to be part of you Beverly, would you like that?” “Yes, more than anything.”
If Beverly had turned into the Gatekeeper at this point, I would’ve give “Sub Rosa” so many A pluses.

[...]

Ronin JUST INHABITED FELISA’S CORPSE! AND THEN SHE KNOCKS OUT DATA AND GEORDI! THERE AREN’T ENOUGH CAPITAL LETTERS IN THE WORLD FOR THIS SHIT!
I’m not going to lie. This was pretty amazing.


[...]

“Somehow he realized one of my ancestors had a biochemistry that was compatible with his energy matrix.”
Oh, that old saw.
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Old July 30 2014, 02:32 AM   #24
GalaxyX
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
"Code of Honor" is one of my favorites. It was pretty cool having a cast of majority dark-skinned individuals....but after the whining of alleged racism - primarily from white viewers - we never really saw a planet that was majority dark-skinned again. We only got a mention of the Ligonians in "First Duty."

Of course, no one had problems with planets that had aliens visibly portrayed by white individuals in the franchise after that episode.

Some of the cries of racism are - which are, ironically, racist cries themselves are:
*"They're too tribal!" (So, basically, South Americans, Africans, and Asians still in tribes today better civilize themselves!)

*"How dare that black Lutan have an interest in white Tasha Yar! That's racist!" (Of course, no one has a problem with every Asian woman being paired with a white male in the Trek franchise, but it's a problem when a black male is opposite a non-black woman).

(That's the problem when you have primarily white males behind the scenes, rather than a diverse group, calling the shots).

I would have liked to have seen the Ligonians in a more stronger story in later seasons...but, alas, in the Berman-era even the extras were primarily white - just look at Enterprise.

"Lonely Among Us" is another favorite I watched a few days back. And, Data mimicking his idea of Sherlock Holmes was hilarious...

I have a few from Season 1 I will be watching...
I thought it would have been a great episode if the Ligonian culture would have been portrayed as other advanced cultures usually were (like in The Wounded, or The High Ground).

The story could have still worked out with some changes.

If I remember correctly, Lutan was interested in Yar, but she was also attracted to him.

I think somewhere down the line, they just really didn't think of how racist the episode would appear to be in the final product.
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Old July 30 2014, 07:01 AM   #25
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I just want to balance out the 'Royale' love for a moment and say: that episode sucks Nah it's okay, but I have to be in the mood for a certain level of pain to watch that episode. Trek characters in modern day settings is bad enough, but the ep goes one step forward and it's a modern day crappy novel setting. The only way it could be worse is if historical characters showed up like Mark Twain.

I'd go with Cost of Living which seems very much disliked. It's actually one of the episodes I distinctly remember seeing on TV as a kid. I found it one of the most unique uses of the holodeck, jugglers and that floating ball head.

Shades of grey in my opinion is not that bad, for a clip show that is.
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Old July 30 2014, 08:16 AM   #26
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
"Haven"

It's the only Lwaxana Troi episode that's watchable. Some over-the-top moments, too, like the talking treasure chest and Yar's hairdo ...
The talking treasure chest gets points just because it's Quark.
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Old July 30 2014, 08:34 AM   #27
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
"Code of Honor" is one of my favorites. It was pretty cool having a cast of majority dark-skinned individuals....but after the whining of alleged racism - primarily from white viewers - we never really saw a planet that was majority dark-skinned again. We only got a mention of the Ligonians in "First Duty."

Of course, no one had problems with planets that had aliens visibly portrayed by white individuals in the franchise after that episode.

Some of the cries of racism are - which are, ironically, racist cries themselves are:
*"They're too tribal!" (So, basically, South Americans, Africans, and Asians still in tribes today better civilize themselves!)

*"How dare that black Lutan have an interest in white Tasha Yar! That's racist!" (Of course, no one has a problem with every Asian woman being paired with a white male in the Trek franchise, but it's a problem when a black male is opposite a non-black woman).

(That's the problem when you have primarily white males behind the scenes, rather than a diverse group, calling the shots).

I would have liked to have seen the Ligonians in a more stronger story in later seasons...but, alas, in the Berman-era even the extras were primarily white - just look at Enterprise.

"Lonely Among Us" is another favorite I watched a few days back. And, Data mimicking his idea of Sherlock Holmes was hilarious...

I have a few from Season 1 I will be watching...
I thought it would have been a great episode if the Ligonian culture would have been portrayed as other advanced cultures usually were (like in The Wounded, or The High Ground).

The story could have still worked out with some changes.

If I remember correctly, Lutan was interested in Yar, but she was also attracted to him.

I think somewhere down the line, they just really didn't think of how racist the episode would appear to be in the final product.
I haven't seen 'The High Ground' or 'The Wounded,' but yeah, you remember correctly: There was a mutual attraction between Yar and Lutan. Nothing wrong with that; it's not racist. Of course, those who have issues with interracial relationships involving black people are the ones racist. Black people can have relationships with people who are non-black. For example, I like Eurasian girls.

Trek, overseen primarily by white males, doesn't have a problem with Asian female/white male relationships, so there shouldn't have any problem with black male/non-black female relationships.

However, I think you're forgetting: A teleplay not strongly written doesn't equal racism just because an episode features a predominantly black cast or features black cast members or a black cast member. If that were true, we could possibly point to racist teleplays in how Geordi LaForge was depicted. For example, every other character was able to have healthy relationships, except Geordi. As aforementioned, there was no problem with the writers/producers putting yet another Asian woman in the Trek franchise with a white male in "Data's Day," but they had to write Geordi with failed relationships with everyone except an alien that was visibly portrayed by a black woman in 'Aquiel' - and even that lasted one episode.

And, everyone seems to handle themselves in hand-to-hand combat, yet Geordi seems to be a wimp.

Last edited by Joel_Kirk; July 30 2014 at 11:40 AM.
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Old July 30 2014, 02:18 PM   #28
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I enjoy the outrageous Okona.
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Old July 30 2014, 02:29 PM   #29
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

wulfio wrote: View Post
I enjoy the outrageous Okona.
Sorry... You now have been excommunitcated from the Holy Church of the Rod!
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Old July 30 2014, 11:32 PM   #30
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I also love both "The Royale" and "Masks". Another favorite of mine that I think is less than popular is "Thine Own Self". I generally enjoy any Data-centric episode, but that one is offbeat enough to stand out.
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