RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,549
Posts: 5,513,482
Members: 25,144
Currently online: 591
Newest member: A.E.Andres

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 21 2014, 02:57 PM   #31
Cap'n Claus
Rear Admiral
 
Cap'n Claus's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
That doesn't make sense at all. Obama didn't became President because all the male half-black half-white university professors voted for him.
However, there was an unprecedented turnout of black and Hispanic voters for Obama's first Presidential election. My polling place was mobbed with new faces. You can't tell me they all walked in to vote en masse for the first time to support John McCain....

Whether or not folks think individual votes count for anything, the point is that people pick candidates for whatever reason motivates them, whether it be the issues or how a person looks. Society decides what reason is most acceptable, but every person keeps their own counsel.
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
Cap'n Claus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21 2014, 05:16 PM   #32
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Marsden wrote: View Post
What do you mean by embarrassing?


Embarrassing for Rand? I think she is thinking that she's within 48 hours of death and embarrasment is not something that still has room left. She may never have expressed any feeling about wanting to attract Kirk in normal circumstances, but dying and being mentally impared could make buried feelings surface. I thought it was well done as Captain Kirk and Janice were trying to cope with their own relationships, personal and professional, and dealing with them both coming to an abrupt end, because they were nearly dead.
That's an in-story rationalization, but metatextually, it just feels like another instance of the writers reducing Rand to a sexually submissive doormat who was more concerned with being attractive to her male employer than with being good at her job. Which is perfectly consistent with how most working women were written in the 1960s -- just working until they could succeed in attracting a husband, whereupon they'd happily retire to homemaking and motherhood -- but it's hardly the progressiveness we'd like to see in Star Trek. Combined with Rand's "If the Captain wanted to rape me, I guess it'd be okay" attitude in "The Enemy Within," it adds up to make her a very conventional, backward portrayal of a female character and just leaves me with a sour taste.



ssosmcin wrote: View Post
However, there was an unprecedented turnout of black and Hispanic voters for Obama's first Presidential election. My polling place was mobbed with new faces. You can't tell me they all walked in to vote en masse for the first time to support John McCain....
Could it be, though, that they were actually thoughtful enough to realize that Obama would represent their interests and needs better than McCain, rather than simply being mindless creatures of impulse voting based on surface appearance? I didn't see women coming out in droves to vote for Sarah Palin. A subtantial majority of women voted for the Obama-Biden ticket in 2008, while men were almost evenly split between them and McCain-Palin. It was women who gave Obama the election (or at least who ensured he'd win by a clear margin), even though it was the Republican ticket that had a woman on it.

Not to mention that I was one of those voters who eagerly waited in line to vote early for Obama, and I'm about as white as it's possible to get without being an albino. I'm sure there are some voters who approach an election merely as a beauty pageant or popularity contest, but it's simplistic to assume we're all like that. There are many voters who genuinely care about their future and that of their children and who make their decisions based on issues and policies, and on the character of the candidates rather than simply what boxes they tick off on a census form.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21 2014, 06:04 PM   #33
Marsden
Captain
 
Marsden's Avatar
 
Location: The Temple of Syrinx
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
What do you mean by embarrassing?


Embarrassing for Rand? I think she is thinking that she's within 48 hours of death and embarrasment is not something that still has room left. She may never have expressed any feeling about wanting to attract Kirk in normal circumstances, but dying and being mentally impared could make buried feelings surface. I thought it was well done as Captain Kirk and Janice were trying to cope with their own relationships, personal and professional, and dealing with them both coming to an abrupt end, because they were nearly dead.
That's an in-story rationalization, but metatextually, it just feels like another instance of the writers reducing Rand to a sexually submissive doormat who was more concerned with being attractive to her male employer than with being good at her job. Which is perfectly consistent with how most working women were written in the 1960s -- just working until they could succeed in attracting a husband, whereupon they'd happily retire to homemaking and motherhood -- but it's hardly the progressiveness we'd like to see in Star Trek. Combined with Rand's "If the Captain wanted to rape me, I guess it'd be okay" attitude in "The Enemy Within," it adds up to make her a very conventional, backward portrayal of a female character and just leaves me with a sour taste.
Thank you. I understand what you mean, now. I didn't see it that way because of what I said, but I know there was that kind of attitude more prevelant then. Kind of like a show I was watching that was about how to treat employees, like to let the secretary know she was doing a good job was to pat her on the butt. I could see that in "The Enemy Within" but I didn't see it in Miri. But I can understand.
__________________
We've taken care of everything, the words you hear the songs you sing, the pictures that give pleasure to your eyes. It's one for all and all for one, we work together common sons, never need to wonder how or why.
Marsden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 12:03 AM   #34
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Maurice wrote: View Post
Broadcast order is only interesting if you want to try to experience the show as regular viewers would have back in the day, but otherwise, why bother?
A real simulation of the experience would also imply to watch only one epiode each thursday night and to skip an episode if you don't have time to watch it on the schedule...so yeah, it's pretty limitated.

According to my own experience, it's really suck to see "The Corbomite Maneuver" on the fourth DVD, especially because Rand's introduced here as the newly assigned Captain's Yeoman.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 12:14 AM   #35
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Not to mention the problems with watching "Where No Man..." as the third episode.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 01:00 AM   #36
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Indeed, at least it's on the first disk, but's it remains unpleasing. The only consequence for season 2 is to see that ridiculous Chekov's first wig on the seventh and eleventh episode, but yeah, it sucks for season 1.
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 01:28 AM   #37
urbandefault
Captain
 
urbandefault's Avatar
 
Location: Chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot pie!
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

I watched the reruns every afternoon after school through the 70s. They weren't playing them in any specific order on my local station back then, I think, but I saw them so many times that it doesn't matter any more what the production or airdate order was.

Now I just watch them randomly and enjoy. I don't worry about the little things.
__________________
"GARY BUSEY!" - Gary Busey
urbandefault is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 03:01 AM   #38
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

They were random in the '70s, but by the '80s they were routinely syndicated in production order, and starting with The Star Trek Compendium in 1980, all the reference books favored production order. And the first VHS and 2-disk DVD releases were in production order too. So I learned to embrace and expect production order, and the recent change back to favoring airdate order is very frustrating to me.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 03:21 AM   #39
Olive, the Other Reindeer
Vice Admiral
 
Olive, the Other Reindeer's Avatar
 
Location: scotpens
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Marsden wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
But then the episode goes and scuttles that with the "Look at my legs" scene, which is just embarrassing.
. . . Embarrassing for Rand? I think she is thinking that she's within 48 hours of death and embarrasment is not something that still has room left. She may never have expressed any feeling about wanting to attract Kirk in normal circumstances, but dying and being mentally impared could make buried feelings surface. I thought it was well done as Captain Kirk and Janice were trying to cope with their own relationships, personal and professional, and dealing with them both coming to an abrupt end, because they were nearly dead.
That was my reaction as well. I thought the line was actually a good dramatic moment and perfectly in character. Maybe it's a generational thing.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
Olive, the Other Reindeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 04:18 AM   #40
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

It was in character, sure, but the way the character of Rand was written was rather sexist. That's the problem. She's a 1960s secretary/love interest in a 23rd-century setting, and that's a rather backward portrayal of a female character. Rand is one of the biggest counterarguments to the premise that TOS was progressive in its portrayal of gender roles.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 04:35 AM   #41
plynch
Commodore
 
plynch's Avatar
 
Location: Outer Graceland
View plynch's Twitter Profile
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
It was in character, sure, but the way the character of Rand was written was rather sexist. That's the problem. She's a 1960s secretary/love interest in a 23rd-century setting, and that's a rather backward portrayal of a female character. Rand is one of the biggest counterarguments to the premise that TOS was progressive in its portrayal of gender roles.
Nicely put.
__________________
Author of Live Like Louis! Inspirational Stories from the Life of Louis Armstrong, http://livelikelouis.com
plynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 04:36 PM   #42
mb22
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

They were random in the '70s, but by the '80s they were routinely syndicated in production order.
I recall New York's WPIX Channel 11 would usually run them in production order suring the 1970s and early '80s. Once in a while they would run some seemingly episode, though.
mb22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 07:25 PM   #43
MikeH92467
Vice Admiral
 
MikeH92467's Avatar
 
Location: Boise, ID
View MikeH92467's Twitter Profile
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
It was in character, sure, but the way the character of Rand was written was rather sexist. That's the problem. She's a 1960s secretary/love interest in a 23rd-century setting, and that's a rather backward portrayal of a female character. Rand is one of the biggest counterarguments to the premise that TOS was progressive in its portrayal of gender roles.
I would argue that the "breakthrough" (such as it was) was the fact that women were there at all and that some of them were department heads or held positions of considerable responsibility. The show was supposed to be in "the future", but the writers were in the present.
MikeH92467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 08:44 PM   #44
feek61
Captain
 
feek61's Avatar
 
Location: The Sunshine State
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

Christopher wrote: View Post
They were random in the '70s,
Are you sure? When I watched Trek in the early 70's they WERE in a certain order. I kept a Star Trek notebook (I know I'm a nerd) and one of the things I did was to keep a record of which episodes played and in what order. Even though the show would be on the air, go off and come back; the order of episodes was always the same. Not sure why I wasted everyones time with this, lol.
__________________
feek61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 09:54 PM   #45
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Yeoman Rand & Production order

MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
I would argue that the "breakthrough" (such as it was) was the fact that women were there at all and that some of them were department heads or held positions of considerable responsibility. The show was supposed to be in "the future", but the writers were in the present.
True enough -- but as I mentioned above, there were other TV shows on the air at the same time that did successfully show stronger, more assertive and independent female characters. Rand doesn't just come off badly compared to modern female protagonists, but to a number of her own contemporaries. As I said, the myth is that TOS was on the vanguard for its era, but while it was making an effort to be inclusive and progressive, there were a number of other contemporary shows that did it significantly better. And sometimes TOS cancelled out its own progressiveness with some really blatant sexism.


feek61 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
They were random in the '70s,
Are you sure? When I watched Trek in the early 70's they WERE in a certain order. I kept a Star Trek notebook (I know I'm a nerd) and one of the things I did was to keep a record of which episodes played and in what order. Even though the show would be on the air, go off and come back; the order of episodes was always the same. Not sure why I wasted everyones time with this, lol.
Interesting. I would imagine that each station would cycle through them in the order they came in the syndication package, but there's no telling what the basis for that order was, if any. Maybe "random" is the wrong word, but what I meant is that the '70s syndicated episodes were not in any meaningful order that I'm aware of. But eventually, there was a syndication package released in production order, and that was the standard for quite a while.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.