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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 13 2014, 04:36 PM   #31
KaineMorrison
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
It takes three to five years for the US Navy to BUILD aircraft carriers. Slightly longer for new designs. Design and planning would add a couple of years to the beginning.
But these Ships are far more massive!

Which leads me to a new question...
Why was the 1701 given a refit?
Why not just rename a different Ship?

Was there no time to build a new ship?
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Old July 13 2014, 06:12 PM   #32
Ithekro
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

Ships go though refit cycles from time to time. Ships also get repurposed from time to time.

Take USS Boston (CA-69). She was a heavy cruiser built during World War II and served during 1944 and 1945 in the Pacific. Following the war she was decommissioned as there were too many ships in the fleet.

In 1952 she was taken out of reserves and rebuilt as the worlds first guided missile cruiser. She kept the name USS Boston, but was renumbered to CAG-1. She served in this capacity until decommissioned again in 1970. However she was renumbered back to CA-69 in 1968. This was due to her missiles being outdated, so her purpose was to use her old 8 inch guns in combat instead of her obsolete missiles.
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Old July 13 2014, 10:22 PM   #33
C.E. Evans
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
Why was the 1701 given a refit?
Why not just rename a different Ship?

Was there no time to build a new ship?
The idea I've favored is that the refit wasn't originally meant to be a total redesign of the vessel. It started off as just a major upgrade to the ship's engines and then spiraled out of control. In the end, the Enterprise wound up being a testbed for a lot of new systems and hull component designs.

"I know engineers. They love to change things."
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Old July 17 2014, 04:04 PM   #34
USS KG5
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
It would need to take at LEAST 2 years to run all of the wires, cables, relays and everything else in the Ship from one end to the other, from top to bottom.
Then testing every connection to make sure no wires are faulty.
You don't really know that - it is quite possible that the various cables etc are replicated in place, or are installed by robots, or some kind of nanotechnology.

The robots and nanites are plausible tech now, let alone in 400 years!

There is on-screen evidence to suggest that building starships takes time, and a specialised shipyard. Building a shuttle takes a few days, so I'm guessing a starship takes at least a year.
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Old July 17 2014, 10:47 PM   #35
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

The fun thing is, we don't really have much reason to think that TNG era starships use wires of any sort in the first place!

The last time we actually saw macroscopic wiring in use aboard a starship was on the 2280s-vintage (but presumably oft-refitted) USS Hathaway in "Peak Performance". For all we know, ships from the 2360s are utterly wireless, for transfer of data, power, and transporter matter streams alike.

Those famed "plasma conduits" could carry all of the above and more, and be trivially simple to lay, as in "Phantasms" et al. they appear to feature as much intricacy as plastic plumbing today...

That aside, it's remarkable that we have basically never witnessed starship construction of any sort. It's always refitting, or test-sailing an already completed ship, or repairing existing vessels. Indeed, our only proper example of starship construction prior to ENT or the first reboot movie was from the Mirror Universe, where a Defiant class vessel was put together in primitive conditions in what appeared to be mere weeks.

Admittedly, a Defiant is small, but she's still as large as a Miranda by all appearances. If she requires weeks, a Sovereign might take months - but not years.

An interesting side note here is that we never saw any evidence of newbuild ships in the Dominion War, save again for a single Defiant class vessel. All other starships seen fighting sported registries lower than those of the DS9 and VOY hero ships, and their designs predated the war (or were kitbashes from components significantly predating the war, FWIW). If Starfleet doesn't manage (doesn't choose?) to build any ships during this crucial multi-year conflict, should this be taken as proof that it's impossible to build starships in any time shorter than decades, and an interstellar empire engaging in a war thus shouldn't even try? That is, unless they are betting on a decades-long conflict, which may be too pessimistic a policy for anybody to accept.

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Old July 18 2014, 02:01 AM   #36
LordMudd
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

I would assume that the experiences of Starfleet going back to Enterprise and before with regard to how long it takes to design and build a ship would eventually lead to a continuous design program that never stops upgrading new tech into starship designs and adjusting those designs based on the needs of the tech to be able to function. Construction yards would be modular to adjust to dimensions and many systems would be prefabricated off site. The use of transporters to move components to site would cut shipping costs as well as difficulties arising from circumventing obstacles.


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Old July 18 2014, 05:58 AM   #37
Neumann
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

For all we know, the Akiras seen on FC are actually warships and are generally closer home (core systems) than out on deep space!
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Old July 20 2014, 01:53 AM   #38
austen_pierce
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

Neumann wrote: View Post
For all we know, the Akiras seen on FC are actually warships and are generally closer home (core systems) than out on deep space!
Good point. I hadn't considered that. There was a Trek book that came out after the TNG episode featuring Kelsey Grammar, in which the Miranda class was referred to as a border cutter. Starfleet may indeed keep certain classes reserved for certain tasks.
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Old July 20 2014, 09:38 AM   #39
Ithekro
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

It is possible that there were new ships built, but it was far faster to refit and reactivate older ships to counter the massive Dominion fleets.

The Dominion seemed to be able to produce new ships even after getting at least two of their shipyards destroyed by Starfleet and the Klingons. And this is using Cardassian resources and any worlds they may have captured in the war. Also the Dominion would only have the timeframe of the war to construct new ships in Cardassian Space, as prior to that they'd have been moving ships from the Gamma Quadrant. And these aren't the Cardassian ships, these are the Jem'Hadar ships. Both large and small.

No telling of the Klingons are building new ships. Even their new ships look old on the inside due to the lighting.

No clue about the Romulans. They seem to have new ships following the war, with some clues that some of them may have been used during the war. We only see the standard Warbirds in action.

We see a little of Starfleet's shipyard over Mars in 2371 in a Voyager time travel episode. It looks mostly like they are rebuilding older ships and new Galaxy-class ships. Or building new ships using the old classes designs (as if those old production lines never stopped building Excelsiors).
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Old July 20 2014, 03:39 PM   #40
austen_pierce
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

Didn't you know Excelsiors last forever?
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Old July 20 2014, 10:34 PM   #41
publiusr
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Re: Regarding ShipBuilding...

Well, at least we know where tholians get there raw materials
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/...giant-diamond/
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