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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 19 2014, 07:08 PM   #46
Deranged Nasat
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

I assume Markonian was thinking of the Taurus Dark Cloud. And the Star Charts uses the same coloured blob effect for the Typhon Expanse as it does for nebulae, whatever that means for the definition of 'expanse'.

Of course, the Taurus Pact was named for the Taurus Reach, not for any particular location or phenomenon in Taurus.
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Old July 19 2014, 09:25 PM   #47
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

And "Taurus Reach" is a very Earth-centric name for the region of space in the direction of the imaginary constellation that the ancient Greeks thought looked like a bull.
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Old July 19 2014, 10:34 PM   #48
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Not forgetting the K'vin hegemony,a onetime member of the UFP(Doomsday world).
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Old July 19 2014, 11:13 PM   #49
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Christopher wrote: View Post
And "Taurus Reach" is a very Earth-centric name for the region of space in the direction of the imaginary constellation that the ancient Greeks thought looked like a bull.
Well, yes, obviously, but the proposed name for the Tholian-Breen-Gorn alliance came from the region, because as with the Typhon Pact it was the location of their final talks, so I imagine it's Whatever-Agreed-Term-They-Use-For-The-Area Pact (Shedai Sector Pact?), assuming they didn't just take the name Taurus itself as a reminder of the Terrans' actions there (the Tholians like keeping grudges alive, after all). But whether it's actually the Taurus Pact or not, that's what it translates to because they were deliberately naming it after what Terrans call the Taurus Reach.

What the Typhon Pact is called in their own legalese I don't know. Whatever-Agreed-Term-For-That-Region Pact, presumably. Does it have six different official names?

I guess, building on Star Charts, the fact that they recognise the same area as distinct shows that the expanse has definable boundaries that aren't just arbitrary Federation line-drawing. There's something there. The Delphic Expanse had its cloud border, so maybe it's something like that.
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Old July 19 2014, 11:53 PM   #50
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Do you guys think that names like Delta Triangle and Badlands are Earth-centric? They are named after features on Earth, but a triangle is a universally known polygon and "badlands" is cobbled from basic translatable English words.
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Old July 19 2014, 11:59 PM   #51
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Well, "Delta Triangle" is something of a tautology, though I assume that humans coined the term as an analogy for the mythical Bermuda Triangle. As for "badlands," that's a generic term for a type of dry, heavily eroded terrain with lots of canyons, ravines, and gullies. But presumably the feature in the DMZ was named that by human settlers by analogy with the badlands of the American West and their reputation as a place where outlaws could find many places to hide out or elude pursuit.
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Old July 20 2014, 12:07 AM   #52
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Christopher wrote: View Post
As for "badlands," that's a generic term for a type of dry, heavily eroded terrain with lots of canyons, ravines, and gullies.
And Deinonychus!

I was one of the dinosaur-obsessed children, and my first exposure to the term "badlands" was the knowledge that Deinonychus was unearthed in the Badlands of Montana. So I came to associate the word with the dinosaur. Even more than plasma storms, that's still what comes to mind for me.

There's even a star called Deinonychus in Trek. Sadly, it isn't in the Badlands.
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Old July 20 2014, 12:10 AM   #53
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Except neither of those is a nebula. Taurus is a constellation, and Typhon is an "expanse," whatever that is.
Correct. Let me rephrase that - naming themselves after (star) clusters. In this case, that's the Typhon Expanse and the Taurus Reach.

Maybe STO's 2410 storyline should've gone for the Azure Pact instead of the Jenolan Accords for the alliance of UFP, Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic.
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Old July 20 2014, 12:16 AM   #54
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Markonian wrote: View Post
Maybe STO's 2410 storyline should've gone for the Azure Pact instead of the Jenolan Accords for the alliance of UFP, Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic.
Ah, so they're all at peace again now, are they?

Jenolan Accords sounds very elegant. Rolls nicely off the tongue.

In other news, the Pa'haquel's hunting alliance is now the Gum Pact. A Pact of Gum.
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Old July 20 2014, 12:25 AM   #55
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

I'll just post to gripe about the name "Klingon Imperial Empire."
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Old July 20 2014, 12:25 AM   #56
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Markonian wrote: View Post
Correct. Let me rephrase that - naming themselves after (star) clustes. In this case, that's the Typhon Expanse and the Taurus Reach.
Sorry, those aren't star clusters either. They're just regions.
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Old July 20 2014, 12:35 AM   #57
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Captrek wrote: View Post
I'll just post to gripe about the name "Klingon Imperial Empire."
It was a shame that the Stellar Cartography book referenced that on one of the maps. Sins of the Father - such a great episode but it has that one oddity. Such painful lines belong not in Patrick Stewart's mouth (or anywhere, but especially not there).

We must assume that the Department of Redundancy Department temporarily wrested control of the Klingon state from the High Council? Hopefully they were soon put to ignoble death, and sanity (or as close as the Klingon Empire gets, anyway) was restored. Or perhaps the Klingons are just really enthusiastic about their empire? They're the most imperial empire that ever did...imperare? Imperiate?
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Old July 20 2014, 12:41 AM   #58
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
Maybe STO's 2410 storyline should've gone for the Azure Pact instead of the Jenolan Accords for the alliance of UFP, Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic.
Ah, so they're all at peace again now, are they?

Jenolan Accords sounds very elegant. Rolls nicely off the tongue.

In other news, the Pa'haquel's hunting alliance is now the Gum Pact. A Pact of Gum.
Yes, peace has been reestablished (About time!). The name is derived from the site of an international conference in the Jenolan Dyson sphere. The Khitomer Accords have not yet been reinstated.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
Correct. Let me rephrase that - naming themselves after (star) clustes. In this case, that's the Typhon Expanse and the Taurus Reach.
Sorry, those aren't star clusters either. They're just regions.
STO treats almost anything called nebula, cluster and expanse as a star cluster with multiple worlds inside (size permitting). That's where I got the idea from.

By the way, are the Taurus Dark Cloud and the Taurus Reach the same region?
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Old July 20 2014, 01:54 AM   #59
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Markonian wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Sorry, those aren't star clusters either. They're just regions.
STO treats almost anything called nebula, cluster and expanse as a star cluster with multiple worlds inside (size permitting). That's where I got the idea from.
Well, that's a gross misuse of the term "star cluster" and a reminder of why you shouldn't expect a computer game to be informative about anything resembling reality. A star cluster is a group of closely associated stars, either a globular cluster of tens of thousands to millions of stars gravitationally bound into a spherical clump (usually found in the halo around the galaxy) or an open cluster of young stars formed in the same stellar nursery and not yet dissipated through the galaxy.


By the way, are the Taurus Dark Cloud and the Taurus Reach the same region?
Absolutely not. The Taurus Dark Cloud is a real thing, more properly called the Taurus Molecular Cloud, a star-formation nebula located near (but not physically associated with) the Pleiades in the constellation Taurus (the Bull in the Zodiac). "Taurus Reach" is a name made up for Vanguard to refer to the much nearer region in which the series took place, and is called that because it's also in the direction of the constellation Taurus. See, because of how the ancients treated the sky as a sphere and divided it up into constellations, every part of the sky that we think of as a constellation is actually a 3-dimensional wedge beginning at Earth and expanding outward indefinitely, getting wider the farther you get from Earth. So "Taurus" -- or any other constellation name -- doesn't refer to a single place, but to an entire wedge-shaped sector of the sky that expands outward from Earth and has no defined outer limit. In Trek Lit usage, a "[Constellation] Reach" is essentially the name for one of those sectors, or at least the part of it extending beyond the Federation's borders. At least, that's how I've expanded the usage in a few of my works following the precedent of the Taurus Reach (e.g. Cygnus Reach, Scorpius Reach, and Sagittarius Reach).

In Star Charts terms, the Taurus Reach, or the portion of it featured in Vanguard, is basically the part of 24th-century Federation space that lies between Cardassian and Tholian territory on the one side and Klingon territory on the other. It's much closer to Earth than the Taurus Dark Cloud.
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Old July 20 2014, 02:00 PM   #60
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Re: That Name's Taken! You can be "Emirates"...

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. When I started reading VGD in 2008 I just assumed the Taurus Reach and Dark Cloud were the same. I knew the letter from maps in various astronomy books and enjoyed pinpointing Trek locations on these.

Going wedge-shaped is a neat way to designate territories in space.
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