RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,148
Posts: 5,434,366
Members: 24,935
Currently online: 604
Newest member: Howell

TrekToday headlines

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 1 2014, 02:17 AM   #31
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Generation & Nexus

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Aye, I think the worst part is the inconsistency of it. Soran says he needs to get into the Nexus by blowing holes in the galaxy because "Believe me, this IS the only way", but we're still expected to accept the falacy that Guinan actually managed to get there (during the Enterprise-B rescue, or maybe some later more successful attempt?) for long enough for her to leave an echo of herself behind. So if the Ent-B hadn't beamed them out then all the guys on those ships at the start of the movie would've made the transition and been fine? Maybe the guys on the other ship did in fact manage to ascend into the Nexus before their vessel went bye-bye.

And then we're shown that Kirk managed to get there through no means other than falling out of a big hole in the side of the 1701-B.

Soran wanting to find a 'safe' way to get there is indeed a plausible fanon explaination, and nobody in the 24th century (including Soran) knew Kirk had managed to survive simply falling into the Nexus anyway, but realistically his destroying suns quite patently isn't the "only" way for him to get into the Nexus!
Now that's an interesting point - could the Enterprise-B "rescue" actually have snatched people back from being able to spend forever in their absolute paradise, where all thier dreams come true and they never grow old.
Its also interesting to note that Soran's first reaction upon realizing where he is was to shout "Let my go BACK!" Back to where, we may ask? Back to the ship? Or back to the Nexus itself, where he (and the rest of the ship's passengers judging by Guinan's echo being left behind) was wrenched from by the Enterprise-B's transporter before fully transitioning to the other realm?

More puzzling still is why the S.S. Lukul sent the distress message that got picked up by the 1701-B in the first place, when judging by the passengers they certainly weren't unhappy about being stuck in the Nexus ribbon (and were in fact more annoyed by being "rescued" from it).
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2014, 02:19 AM   #32
Tiberius
Commodore
 
Re: Generation & Nexus

And given that the Nexus was slower than light it wouldn't have a very large territory. ANd it was fairly close to Earth, given that the Ent B was close to it on it's shakedown cruise. So why have we never heard of it before?
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2014, 02:22 AM   #33
Tiberius
Commodore
 
Re: Generation & Nexus

Lance wrote: View Post
More puzzling still is why the S.S. Lukul sent the distress message that got picked up by the 1701-B in the first place, when judging by the passengers they certainly weren't unhappy about being stuck in the Nexus ribbon (and were in fact more annoyed by being "rescued" from it).
Because they sent the distress call BEFORE they started getting pulled into the nexus.
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2014, 02:24 AM   #34
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Generation & Nexus

Tiberius wrote: View Post
And given that the Nexus was slower than light it wouldn't have a very large territory. ANd it was fairly close to Earth, given that the Ent B was close to it on it's shakedown cruise. So why have we never heard of it before?
True, the (apparently) close proximity to Earth is yet another clanger the script makes. Its for reasons like all of the above that the movie's story is such a bloody mess. Everything we're told and see about the Nexus throughout the movie is inconsistent with everything else we're told and see about it. The Nexus is presented to us with the 'hard science' of its trajectory and its history, but its really nothing more than a doorway to a nonsense magical nether-realm. It's a plot coupon to allow Kirk and Picard to team up, but the ultimate result is very unsatisfying because we really just can't suspend out disbelief in the concept.

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Because they sent the distress call BEFORE they started getting pulled into the nexus.
I suppose this is true. Perhaps the ships got caught in the ribbon, and only subsequently started discovering themselves being taken into this other fantasy reality (my assumption was based on the idea, not actually stated in the movie I agree, that they were looking to enter the Nexus deliberately).
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 12:11 AM   #35
davidant32
Commodore
 
davidant32's Avatar
 
Re: Generation & Nexus

davidant32 wrote: View Post
Well the whole "echo" left behind thing is this: once you're in the Nexus, you're in it forever. The Nexus exists outside of time, so everyone that has ever entered it or ever will enter it from our perspective of time will exist in it and have existed it in for the entirety of "Nexus time," which isn't anything....
Interesting... so if all of "Nexus time" is like one perpetual moment, then does that mean that every occupant of the Nexus in its entire history (by our perception of time) has been pre-determined? So everything Soran does or does not do to alter the Nexus' path through space is really just him trapped fulfilling a pre-determined destiny?
__________________
Space, time, and thought are not the separate things they appear to be.
davidant32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2014, 12:49 AM   #36
ClayinCA
Commodore
 
ClayinCA's Avatar
 
Location: New New Jersey
Re: Generation & Nexus

davidant32 wrote: View Post
Well the whole "echo" left behind thing is this: once you're in the Nexus, you're in it forever.
Which technically means that even if Kirk died on Veridian III, he's also still alive, inside the Nexus. (David R. George III's excellent Crucible Kirk novel makes use of this idea...sort of.)
ClayinCA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9 2014, 06:19 AM   #37
GalaxyX
Rear Admiral
 
GalaxyX's Avatar
 
Location: Canada
Re: Generation & Nexus

I think the most hilarious thing is that the nexus was supposed to be a plot device specifically created to avoid a movie that has time travel in it.

Then they go and make a movie about time travel in the very next outing.

Then JJ Abrams' first Trek outing is a movie about time travel, and the massive success of that film proves time travel IS NOT THE PROBLEM, A LAME STORY IS THE PROBLEM!
__________________
Top Gear America: Jay Leno, Adam Carolla, Tim Allen. DONE!
GalaxyX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9 2014, 07:32 AM   #38
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Generation & Nexus

^ I think the exact idea for GENS was something like "a story about time travel which doesn't use any of the usual time travel tropes". Which is a noble aim, to try and think 'outside the box', but the execution of such a concept is harder to do.

In many ways the Nexus is too abstract. It leaves us with more questions than answers, but because it's ultimately just a wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey thing, we're all left scratching our heads. If we as Trek fans can't get a handle on it, goodness knows what Joe Sixpack in the audience must've thought...
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2014, 05:11 PM   #39
lewisniven
Lieutenant Commander
 
lewisniven's Avatar
 
Location: Northants - UK
Re: Generation & Nexus

The 'how did they get out' is the kicker for me.

Also, when Picard goes back to before the planet was destroyed, how did he do that exactly? Why didn't he go back to the Enterprise B and warn them? Why didn't he go back to when Soran was sitting on the loo and just shoot him?

In the nexus you can go 'anywhere, any time', and that is simply too broad, it is at that moment the story falls apart.

Still a good movie though, 1701-D looks amazing.
__________________
www.1701dproject.blogspot.com - Follow my progress creating 1701-D in the Source engine, as well as my various SketchUp projects
lewisniven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10 2014, 10:51 PM   #40
Kevman7987
Commander
 
Kevman7987's Avatar
 
Location: Erie, PA, USA
View Kevman7987's Twitter Profile
Re: Generation & Nexus

lewisniven wrote: View Post
The 'how did they get out' is the kicker for me.

Also, when Picard goes back to before the planet was destroyed, how did he do that exactly? Why didn't he go back to the Enterprise B and warn them? Why didn't he go back to when Soran was sitting on the loo and just shoot him?
Interior; Enterprise; Outside Ten Forward

Picard, back from the Nexus, walks into Ten Forward and up to Soran.

Soran turns to face Picard.

Picard shoots him in the face with a phaser rifle.

Cut to: Credits
__________________
"Don't do it, Meat!"
"Don't do it, Cheese!"
Kevman7987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2014, 12:10 AM   #41
KaineMorrison
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Selden, NY
View KaineMorrison's Twitter Profile
Re: Generation & Nexus

Push The Button wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

If they were both El-Aurian: shouldn't Soran have left an echo behind as well?
You're right! The whole "echo" deal is never really explained.
So much about the Nexus is never explained. How do Kirk and Picard get "out" of it when they leave to stop Soran?

Or do they even get out of it at all? What if the rest of Generations and the movies that follow are all part of Picard's Nexus fantasy, and in reality Soran was successful and the crew of Enterprise-D were killed when the planet was destroyed?
My theory is that Picard NEVER left the Nexus!
He also did NOT meet the "real" Kirk, but his thought of what Kirk would be!
KaineMorrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2014, 12:14 AM   #42
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: Generation & Nexus

Lance wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
And given that the Nexus was slower than light it wouldn't have a very large territory. ANd it was fairly close to Earth, given that the Ent B was close to it on it's shakedown cruise. So why have we never heard of it before?
True, the (apparently) close proximity to Earth is yet another clanger the script makes. Its for reasons like all of the above that the movie's story is such a bloody mess. Everything we're told and see about the Nexus throughout the movie is inconsistent with everything else we're told and see about it. The Nexus is presented to us with the 'hard science' of its trajectory and its history, but its really nothing more than a doorway to a nonsense magical nether-realm. It's a plot coupon to allow Kirk and Picard to team up, but the ultimate result is very unsatisfying because we really just can't suspend out disbelief in the concept.

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Because they sent the distress call BEFORE they started getting pulled into the nexus.
I suppose this is true. Perhaps the ships got caught in the ribbon, and only subsequently started discovering themselves being taken into this other fantasy reality (my assumption was based on the idea, not actually stated in the movie I agree, that they were looking to enter the Nexus deliberately).
Moreover, why is something moving this slowly not more widely known about? And patrolled? I would think both science vessels and very likely military cruisers belonging to dozens of governments would be tailing this thing through space in the interests of study and tactical exploitation. Those pesky Romulans would just love themselves some Nexus torpedoes

Yet no one cares. This ridiculously destructive monster just wanders through space, very close to inhabited planets, with no one to even warn potential victims. *shrugs*
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen

Last edited by austen_pierce; July 11 2014 at 12:42 AM.
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2014, 12:16 AM   #43
KaineMorrison
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Selden, NY
View KaineMorrison's Twitter Profile
Re: Generation & Nexus

The Nexus, I always thought only took in Organic Matter. That's why there are horses, trees, planets...
Yet it destroys ships.
KaineMorrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2014, 12:57 AM   #44
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: Generation & Nexus

KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
Yet it destroys ships.
Don't feel bad, it destroys movies too.
__________________
"I'm not the commander" - Tim Allen
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11 2014, 01:07 AM   #45
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Generation & Nexus

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
Yet it destroys ships.
Don't feel bad, it destroys movies too.


Honestly, I find the first half of Generations decent enough. Just the second half is plain terrible.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.