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Old July 11 2014, 12:55 AM   #16
KaineMorrison
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

BillJ wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
The power of the Q is easily more magical than the Force.
But is it really magic or just very advanced technology that the Federation doesn't understand?
Is it Magick or is it SuperPowers like an extremely powerful X-Man or even Beyonder from Marvel?
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Old July 11 2014, 01:00 AM   #17
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

Q is the Rudy Coby of godlike beings.
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Old July 11 2014, 01:17 AM   #18
KaineMorrison
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

Melakon wrote: View Post
Q is the Rudy Coby of godlike beings.
I have no idea what that means.
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Old July 11 2014, 02:15 AM   #19
The Dead Mixer
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

KaineMorrison wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
The power of the Q is easily more magical than the Force.
But is it really magic or just very advanced technology that the Federation doesn't understand?
Is it Magick or is it SuperPowers like an extremely powerful X-Man or even Beyonder from Marvel?
"Superpowers" could just as easily be used to describe the Force.

Q and the Genesis device have no more basis in science than the Force or Bruce Banner turning into the Hulk. It's all fantasy bullshit.
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Old July 11 2014, 02:20 AM   #20
Nightdiamond
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

Q is the Rudy Coby of godlike beings.
I have no idea what that means.



The Prophets and almost all the things associated with them.

At first it was pretty interesting, but later it practically 'jumped the shark' with magical concepts.

Stone tablets that release spirits when you do a certain chant. Ancient scrolls that blind you if you were not the one meant to read them.

Divine being vs evil being having a magic energy showdown on the station with their magical energies.

By the way, evil energy = red eyes and red energy. Good = blue eyes and blue energy.

It's some type of advanced science and you better believe it .
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Old July 11 2014, 02:30 AM   #21
TheAdmiralty
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

The Guardian of Forever comes pretty close to magic. Not a whole lot was explained about how it did what it did.
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Old July 11 2014, 03:27 AM   #22
sojourner
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

TNG never explained how Padds worked either. Doesn't make them "magic".
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Old July 11 2014, 03:49 AM   #23
junkdata
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

sojourner wrote: View Post
TNG never explained how Padds worked either. Doesn't make them "magic".
I dont think you have to explain everything, as by definition, a lot of the things we see will be basically impossible to replicate at this point. However, there is a big difference between something like the tricorders and the kind of magic we see on game of thrones.

One is an extension of science as we know it, to encompass a logical need in the future and the other is a need humanity has always had, covered by an inexplicable plot device.

I dont like magic because it not only doesnt follow our rules, but its doesnt really relate to them at all. Furthermore, it seems to show scant reason in the world we are being introduced to. In game of thrones there are magical assassins who can kill anyone. Well thats great, but surely that would destroy the concept of security and completely dominate wars. Also we have smoke monsters killing kings. Well it happens once, - why not more?

In the ST universe there are elements that appear to be magic, but they are usually encased in episodic drama, that compartmentalises them into neat meetings with new cultures. What we dont usually see is stock characters and races such as the klingons and ferengi using magic, because it would mess up the substantive texture of the show. In things like GOT, there is far more "magic" mixed into the texture of the show.
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Old July 11 2014, 11:02 AM   #24
2takesfrakes
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

Q is the ultimate example of magic in the STAR TREK universe.

As is Kes and her Q-like powers

Many aliens have abilities that would be deemed "magical," as there would be no biological basis for any, which all seem ... unnatural.
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Old July 11 2014, 11:32 AM   #25
Deckerd
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

junkdata wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
TNG never explained how Padds worked either. Doesn't make them "magic".
I dont think you have to explain everything, as by definition, a lot of the things we see will be basically impossible to replicate at this point. However, there is a big difference between something like the tricorders and the kind of magic we see on game of thrones.

One is an extension of science as we know it, to encompass a logical need in the future and the other is a need humanity has always had, covered by an inexplicable plot device.

I dont like magic because it not only doesnt follow our rules, but its doesnt really relate to them at all. Furthermore, it seems to show scant reason in the world we are being introduced to. In game of thrones there are magical assassins who can kill anyone. Well thats great, but surely that would destroy the concept of security and completely dominate wars. Also we have smoke monsters killing kings. Well it happens once, - why not more?

In the ST universe there are elements that appear to be magic, but they are usually encased in episodic drama, that compartmentalises them into neat meetings with new cultures. What we dont usually see is stock characters and races such as the klingons and ferengi using magic, because it would mess up the substantive texture of the show. In things like GOT, there is far more "magic" mixed into the texture of the show.
But in any fantasy setting, the magic elements are part of that world. Is it any less unrealistic to have explicit magic than the completely fantastical 'science' that ST uses in its everyday storytelling?

If you are using Star Wars and the 'force' as an example of magic in a sci fi setting, how is this different from Kes and her powers? Now you can argue that most of the telepaths are aliens: Vulcans, Betazoids, etc but practically the first ever magical powers we see are Charlie Evans who was 'bestowed' human.
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Old July 11 2014, 12:21 PM   #26
grendelsbayne
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

junkdata wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
TNG never explained how Padds worked either. Doesn't make them "magic".
I dont think you have to explain everything, as by definition, a lot of the things we see will be basically impossible to replicate at this point. However, there is a big difference between something like the tricorders and the kind of magic we see on game of thrones.

One is an extension of science as we know it, to encompass a logical need in the future and the other is a need humanity has always had, covered by an inexplicable plot device.

I dont like magic because it not only doesnt follow our rules, but its doesnt really relate to them at all. Furthermore, it seems to show scant reason in the world we are being introduced to. In game of thrones there are magical assassins who can kill anyone. Well thats great, but surely that would destroy the concept of security and completely dominate wars. Also we have smoke monsters killing kings. Well it happens once, - why not more?

In the ST universe there are elements that appear to be magic, but they are usually encased in episodic drama, that compartmentalises them into neat meetings with new cultures. What we dont usually see is stock characters and races such as the klingons and ferengi using magic, because it would mess up the substantive texture of the show. In things like GOT, there is far more "magic" mixed into the texture of the show.
Maybe it's a question of only having watched the show rather than seen the books, but I don't recall GOT having very much magic at all. As fantasy settings go, it's one of the most 'realistic' I've seen in a while and the magical elements seem very tightly contained to a very small number of people (Jaqen, Bran Stark (and his two buddies), Daenerys (and the witch and wizard she killed) and Melisandre, plus the existence of dragons and zombies, both of which are extremely rare and as of yet have had almost no real impact on the show).

By contrast, Star Trek seems to throw magic around like it's going out of style. Sure, 'most' of the magical beings we meet are never seen again after a single episode, but to my mind, that only makes things worse. If the handful of starships we've seen have had SO many encounters with SO many DIFFERENT aliens that are basically magical gods, then that actually makes it seem like those kinds of magical beings are everywhere in the ST universe. By that standard, I'd have to call ST less realistic than GOT, not more.
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Old July 11 2014, 12:23 PM   #27
teacock
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

The Force is less magic than Q in our current understanding of Q because we were given a non-magic explanation for the Force in the very first movie:

"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

Q has given us nothing, all we know is he snaps his fingers, BRIGHT LIGHT and seemingly anything can be made manifest or disappear or change.
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Old July 11 2014, 02:49 PM   #28
sojourner
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

Deckerd wrote: View Post
but practically the first ever magical powers we see are Charlie Evans who was 'bestowed' human.
Gary Mitchell, Where No Man has Gone Before.
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Old July 11 2014, 07:35 PM   #29
Deckerd
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

You could have put an 'or' in there to make it look less like you were undermining my argument by being a geek.
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Old July 11 2014, 07:57 PM   #30
BillJ
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Re: Examples of magic in the Star Trek universe?..

sojourner wrote: View Post
Deckerd wrote: View Post
but practically the first ever magical powers we see are Charlie Evans who was 'bestowed' human.
Gary Mitchell, Where No Man has Gone Before.
Deckerd wrote: View Post
You could have put an 'or' in there to make it look less like you were undermining my argument by being a geek.
Geek or not, he's right. It isn't undermining your argument by correcting your example.
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