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Old February 17 2011, 08:50 PM   #76
AriesIV
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Location: Around here...
*loads cannon*

T'Girl wrote: View Post

But canon is craved in stone my friend.


Then as it is written because you are not a Latter Day Saint nor do you desire to become one... your soul is destined to wander eternally before the gates of heaven... never joining with God and Christ and never knowing peace.

Sorry my friend that's Canon and its carved in stone. Noting I or anyone else can do about it!

I mean come on already... so it is written so it shall be. This is what someone decided almost 200 years ago when this church was founded.

Can't be changing things or being flexible now that's just not proper ya'll hear me.

If however you want to get on board and save yourself and be JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE who is a member of my church send me a PM --- OH WAIT YOU CAN'T I haven't been here long enough.

Well there you have it. Canon dictates you are DOOMED and there is nothing we can do to change it. It is canon... after all.
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Old February 17 2011, 08:53 PM   #77
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Drydocks

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The problem with that is, from TMP, the dry dock IS directly over San Fransisco, in numerous shots, both outside the office complex and the dry dock itself, the San Fransisco peninsula is visible in the direct background. In the time frame of the movie, these shots are hours apart. The dry dock isn't over the pacific ocean on the equator.
I'm forced to interpret this as a coincidence, since the relative motion of the travel pod and the guys in the space suits can't be made consistent with a structure that is actively hovering in full gravity. The way I see it, an orbit at about 600km with an inclination of 35 degrees would pass over (or at least, relatively close) to San Francisco six or seven times a day. We only saw a view of Earth a couple of times in TMP, so it's possible we simply never saw out of a window at a time when the dock was over New Guinea or something (likewise, we never saw the dry dock in full sunlight either).
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Old February 17 2011, 09:01 PM   #78
Aahz
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Re: Drydocks

Search4 wrote: View Post
Aahz wrote: View Post
BTW, here's a nice image of Voyager in one of the Utopia Planitia drydocks:

This is the same drydock model as the one seen in "Star Trek: Generations", the modified drydock model from TMP.
Well, i have a big question about this statement - I OWN the drydock, and received it in the Generations configuration, and can confirm that this looks nothing like what i got. I don't think this is a model i have seen - would guess that it is CGI.

Thoughts?
Are you NCC1701.US? Wow! Nice to see you here! I am in awe of your collection!

Perhaps it is indeed a CGI re-creation of the drydock. But comparing certain details on the drydocks in both Generations and Voyager, it appears to be the same model, perhaps lit differently so that it appears to be a different structure. Voyager and the Enterprise-B are two ships of vastly different size -- Voyager being approx. 343 meters and Enterprise-B being approx. 511 meters. Yet the ships look to be the same proportional size to the drydock. Something had to be done to make the drydock for Voyager look smaller. Maybe it was simply lighting, maybe it was CGI, but it had to be something.

As I'm sure you WELL know , the Generations drydock had two rows of six 2-light panels (which were modified from the originals) within the latticework (the center rows and the seventh column were removed from the TMP model). The large support structure was added to the underside of the upper portion of the drydock (the hangar/workshop/office space). Also, an asymmetrical office and shuttle landing complex was added to the lower forward portion of the inner port framework. You make note of these changes on your Website.

These elements (seen in this image from Generations) compare very favorably to the drydock seen with Voyager in the image above. Differences in color could be the result of lighting, exposure, or the fact that Generations was shot with film while Voyager was shot with video (I think).

There was no other drydock of this configuration sold at any of the Star Trek memorabilia auctions. If they aren't the same model, then either there is another model hanging around somewhere, or it is a really good CGI re-creation.

Either way, thanks for the information, and especially thanks for restoring the TMP model to all of its original glory (and sharing the photos)!

BTW, since your Enterprise model isn't original, where is it from? Oh, and you can answer a question from earlier in the thread -- are there red and green nav lights on both ends of the drydock model, and if so what is their orientation?
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Old February 17 2011, 10:12 PM   #79
lennier1
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Re: Drydocks

@AAhz: You didn't have to write half a novel for that. Just look at the ceiling above Voyager. It's mostly smooth with only a simple texture whereas that same section on the the physical model is detailed to death and back again. Just one of many dead giveaways (like the completely different habitat section anchored to the side of the ship).
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Old February 18 2011, 01:46 AM   #80
David cgc
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Re: Drydocks

Search4 wrote: View Post
Well, i have a big question about this statement - i OWN the drydock, and received it in the Generations configuration, and can confirm that this looks nothing like what i got. I don't think this is a model i have seen - would guess that it is CGI.

Thoughts?
Oh, it's definitely a CG recreation of the Generations version of the drydock. It's been used in other pure-computer shots, like the cover of the first Ships of the Line calendar, as well as an image of the Utopia docks that's a gussied up version of the establishing shot in "Relativity" (more ships, Spacedock-style space stations instead of the smaller ones in the episode), and the shot at the top of this page.
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Old February 18 2011, 03:30 AM   #81
Aahz
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Re: Drydocks

David cgc wrote: View Post
Search4 wrote: View Post
Well, i have a big question about this statement - i OWN the drydock, and received it in the Generations configuration, and can confirm that this looks nothing like what i got. I don't think this is a model i have seen - would guess that it is CGI.

Thoughts?
Oh, it's definitely a CG recreation of the Generations version of the drydock. It's been used in other pure-computer shots, like the cover of the first Ships of the Line calendar, as well as an image of the Utopia docks that's a gussied up version of the establishing shot in "Relativity" (more ships, Spacedock-style space stations instead of the smaller ones in the episode), and the shot at the top of this page.
Well there ya go, then... I stand corrected...
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Old February 18 2011, 01:04 PM   #82
Search4
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Re: Drydocks

Aahz wrote: View Post
Search4 wrote: View Post
Aahz wrote: View Post
BTW, here's a nice image of Voyager in one of the Utopia Planitia drydocks:

This is the same drydock model as the one seen in "Star Trek: Generations", the modified drydock model from TMP.
Well, i have a big question about this statement - I OWN the drydock, and received it in the Generations configuration, and can confirm that this looks nothing like what i got. I don't think this is a model i have seen - would guess that it is CGI.

Thoughts?
Are you NCC1701.US? Wow! Nice to see you here! I am in awe of your collection!

Perhaps it is indeed a CGI re-creation of the drydock. But comparing certain details on the drydocks in both Generations and Voyager, it appears to be the same model, perhaps lit differently so that it appears to be a different structure. Voyager and the Enterprise-B are two ships of vastly different size -- Voyager being approx. 343 meters and Enterprise-B being approx. 511 meters. Yet the ships look to be the same proportional size to the drydock. Something had to be done to make the drydock for Voyager look smaller. Maybe it was simply lighting, maybe it was CGI, but it had to be something.

As I'm sure you WELL know , the Generations drydock had two rows of six 2-light panels (which were modified from the originals) within the latticework (the center rows and the seventh column were removed from the TMP model). The large support structure was added to the underside of the upper portion of the drydock (the hangar/workshop/office space). Also, an asymmetrical office and shuttle landing complex was added to the lower forward portion of the inner port framework. You make note of these changes on your Website.

These elements (seen in this image from Generations) compare very favorably to the drydock seen with Voyager in the image above. Differences in color could be the result of lighting, exposure, or the fact that Generations was shot with film while Voyager was shot with video (I think).

There was no other drydock of this configuration sold at any of the Star Trek memorabilia auctions. If they aren't the same model, then either there is another model hanging around somewhere, or it is a really good CGI re-creation.

Either way, thanks for the information, and especially thanks for restoring the TMP model to all of its original glory (and sharing the photos)!

BTW, since your Enterprise model isn't original, where is it from? Oh, and you can answer a question from earlier in the thread -- are there red and green nav lights on both ends of the drydock model, and if so what is their orientation?
Well i like my toys. Thanks for the admiration!

You actually see "the other side of the Drydock" in the distance in TMP when Scotty and Kirk are flying towards the Enterprise. However, that's a trick: they just reversed the ship in the drydock and filmed it from that orientation. The "back" of the drydock" is unfinished and does not have nav lights.

Or to say it the other way: the back of the drydock is for canon purposes the same as the front as that is how it is shown in the movie!

(amazing what you can see with those blu-rays).

The drydock looked sadly like a sun tan salon without an Enterprise, so i found a 6 foot version Phase II, probably originally for a Planet Hollywood but likely not displayed, and had it converted to a TMP look alike.
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Old February 18 2011, 01:10 PM   #83
Search4
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Re: Drydocks

Oh, and here is the "office" from the Generations configuration.

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Old February 21 2011, 06:40 PM   #84
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Drydocks

...The docked shuttle is a cute detail.

But what is the purpose of the swiveling mechanism? It doesn't look as if it would allow the structure to get any more out of the way of the E-B than it already is, not without the frame of the dock blocking the way. So it's probably in extreme down position already. Yet what would it be doing higher up, ever? Is it supposed to mate with the processed ship somehow? I don't see any docking bits or otherwise "functional" features at the left end of the structure, to justify bringing that end closer to the ship.

Is the fictional rationale of the mechanism to bring the top of the office to direct contact with the bottom of the saucer, perhaps? One of the saucer ventral hatches might mate with whatever mechanism is hidden under that top dome of the office, facilitating shirtsleeves access (albeit via some sordid cargo bay or whatever).

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Old July 10 2014, 01:26 AM   #85
NemVia
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Re: Drydocks

Wingsley wrote: View Post
A few questions about the purpose of structures seen in STAR TREK-style dry docks:


Has anyone ever tried to figure out how the docks themselves are structured? Do these docks maintain crew quarters or other habitats for dockyard personnel to live/operate from? Has anyone ever drawn a blueprint of a drydock?
Kinda getting back to part of your original post here...
I have always wondered why there was so much space on the top part of the Drydock or what I like to call the overhead modules. There appears to be enough room for several decks worth of space or a few decks worth of storage space for cargo carriers, work bees, extra shuttle craft travel pods and other misc. items. Throughout the fly-by sequence in TMP you see many of these craft zooming by loaded with containers and other equipment. I doubt that all of them would be flying in from the orbital office facility which is quite a distance away. As was noted in a previous reply to this thread you can see a travel pod sitting in the small hangar at the front of the Dock. The hanger appears to have it's doors closed. Would there really be that much unused space in those modules or would they be storage facilities. I agree with "search4" that the dock was turned around to show those hangar doors at the rear of the dock as well. After you click on these links you can click on FULL SIZE to get a better look at these pics.
http://www.nemvia.com/apps/photos/ph...toid=189892113
This pic shows that this is so and could also prove that the work bees and cargo carriers could be launched from the back end of the dock so they could take a short hop to the Enterprise's Hangar.
http://www.nemvia.com/apps/photos/ph...toid=189892104
The second pic shows how the filming miniature had no details on the back end of the dock.
Anyway I have scratch built a drydock for a 1/350 scale refit Enterprise model kit and decided to add the same features to the both the front and rear of the dock based on the first picture because I wanted to show that there was something more to this structure than mass with a few tiny entrances on only the front end of the massive structure. It just seemed like wasted space with no purpose, so I added the rear doors to mimic the first picture.
http://www.nemvia.com/apps/photos/ph...otoid=23930419
This is the front end per ST:TMP, and ...
http://www.nemvia.com/apps/photos/ph...otoid=23930418
This is what the back end might look like with the hangar doors opened.
Behind the hangar could be storage, or maintenance and/or manufacturing facilities, but I did not have time to go into that kind of detailing with the model.
I realize there are a lot of comments about cannon, but I believe your post is opening up discussion for what the functionality of the Drydock is or could be which means of course there will be some speculation in some of the posts. I mean, there is a lot of discussion about the purpose of the red and green lights. A lot of speculation! And a lot of great ideas have been voiced. The filming miniature never had any hangar doors, detailing or Red and Green lights put on the rear of the dock because there was no need to for it. When they needed a shot of the rear of the dock it was easier to turn the Enterprise miniature around and film it from the back end making the dock appear to have similar details as the front end. So because they filmed it in this manner, it can also be concluded that there were Red and Green lights on the back end as well. That is of course my own speculation. The total functionality of the drydock as it appears in TMP cannot be absolute because the miniature was made only to appear for a few minutes in a fantastic fly-by scene. So they only built what was going to appear on the screen as is done with most movies. It's all about "cost cutting."
It's interesting that this thread contains some ideas of the dock's shielding and other functions it might have, but let me ask this... What does the top of the drydock look like? No one knows because it was never built to be shown on the big screen. It is possible there may be shield generators and defensive weapons or even power grids that are up there as well. They're just unseen on the screen. Again that is my speculation. Or what about all of the detailing underneath the modules. All of those things could be said to be power units, defensive mechanisms power nodules. There are so many details under there (trust me, I know) that their function could be just about anything you can imagine them to be.
As far as I know there are no specific layout blueprints of the dock and it's modules. So it is impossible to guess what all of the functions of it are. But these are just some of my thoughts and pics of what I do know about the filming miniature.
Mark
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Old July 10 2014, 02:30 PM   #86
trevanian
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Re: Drydocks

There's an area on the starboard near-camera side with a travel pod docked there that looks like an enclosed facility. Think it is on Probert's detail drawings as well.
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