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Old July 9 2014, 02:10 AM   #16
Doctorwhovian
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Never understand why people think Indy was 'dark' and 'badass' in Raiders. Sure, he is for like the first few minutes when he whips the pistol from Baranca's hand with William's sinister score and the great reveal, and seems more composed than the cowardly Satipo once he gets to the temple, but once he screws up stealing the idol, he sets off pretty much every trap in the temple, ends up running and screaming from the Hovitos, and then complains about Jock's snake, to which Jock says "Show a little backbone, will ya?"

Even the more serious fights and chases later in the movie have a lot of comic relief. Sure it kind of got amplified in the sequels (Especially in regards to Marcus Brody), but the myth of Raiders being dark is really just that.

f
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Old July 9 2014, 04:34 AM   #17
davejames
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

sonak wrote: View Post
I've never gotten the hate for Indy 4. It's basically the same stuff as the previous three, and it's much better than "Temple of Doom" with the fingernails-on-chalkboard Capshaw and cheap gross-out scenes. I think the complaints are largely a result of a nostalgia filter for the original trilogy. "Crystal Skull" is no more or less realistic than the other three and they made several good decisions like acknowledging Indy's age, changing the setting and the villains, and bringing back Karen Allen. Not a great movie but an enjoyable one.
I was fine with those other decisions (the idea of the russians wanting to use an artifact to psychically control their enemy is a pretty good one I think), but for me Skull stretches credibility FAR more than any other Indy movie.

From the alien skull itself, to surviving an atomic blast in a fridge, to the entire ridiculous jeep chase (topped off by Shia catching up to and swinging back into a moving jeep!), to the giant carnivorous ants that can drag people away, to surviving multiple waterfalls, to the giant flying saucer...

The other movies had occasional moments like that (the raft scene, the Knight, etc), but not nearly to the degree or in as many physics-defying ways as in Skull. And at least most of the crazier stuff (the heart-ripping, the face-melting) had some kind of supernatural basis to it. You can't say the same for all the crazy stuff that happens in the jeep chase, for instance.
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Old July 9 2014, 04:58 AM   #18
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Doctorwhovian wrote: View Post
Never understand why people think Indy was 'dark' and 'badass' in Raiders. Sure, he is for like the first few minutes when he whips the pistol from Baranca's hand with William's sinister score and the great reveal, and seems more composed than the cowardly Satipo once he gets to the temple, but once he screws up stealing the idol, he sets off pretty much every trap in the temple, ends up running and screaming from the Hovitos, and then complains about Jock's snake, to which Jock says "Show a little backbone, will ya?"

Even the more serious fights and chases later in the movie have a lot of comic relief. Sure it kind of got amplified in the sequels (Especially in regards to Marcus Brody), but the myth of Raiders being dark is really just that.

f
I wouldn't use the word "dark" myself, but I certainly think Raiders was more grounded and serious than any of the others. When Marian supposedly dies in the truck, the movie takes the moment and Indy's reaction very seriously (with him clearly looking like he wants to rip out Belloq's throat in their following scene together), and the Ark itself is regarded in a very serious and solemn way throughout by both the characters and the movie itself.

And as fun as the truck chase is, it also gets pretty brutal at times as well, with Indy bashing the guys head into the dashboard multiple times before then running him over.

There were some lighter moments sprinkled in here and there, but the movie still played itself far more straight than any of the others, I would say.
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Old July 9 2014, 12:10 PM   #19
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

I was never going to watch KINGDOM of the CRYSTAL SKULL, because it looked so atrocious. But a friend of mine who knows my love of Indiana Jones movies kept insisting on getting me this one for my birthday, because he enjoyed it. I kept telling him to save his money, but when I saw him becoming increasingly aggitated over my refusals, I just said, "do as you will." I figured he'd get me some bottom of the cheap bin DVD.

And wouldn't you just know it ... he got me The Deluxe Edition, with all the fixin's. It's got a hardcover book with it, Extras galore ... just to annoy me, I think, to make sure I watched it out of guilt. Which I didn't for a very long time. When I finally did watch it, I was ... aghast. It was ... bad. From credit ... to credit. I particularly hate the Exciting Climax, with the alien that squints at the incomparable Cate Blanchett and then vaporizes her into a cloud of CGI dust. And even then, it refused to end! But that's entertainment ... what we crave for, inside.
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Old July 9 2014, 12:16 PM   #20
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Interestingly enough, the late & former U.S. President Ronald Reagan may well have been the inspiration behind TEMPLE of DOOM with one of his (no longer available) movies ...

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=23266

"HONG KONG"
Starring: Ronald Reagan & Rhonda Flemming
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Old July 9 2014, 01:50 PM   #21
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

An Indiana Jones movie needs Nazis, not Thuggies and definitely not Commies. If they ever make another one, they'll have to use that old myth about escaped Nazis trying to rebuild the Fourth Reich in South America during the 60s.

Mmm, a Fate of Atlantis movie, and a plan to clone Hitler...
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Old July 9 2014, 02:02 PM   #22
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

I like a few of his movies (Duel, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Indy 1 to 3) but on the whole, really don't like Spielbergs movies.

Two of my most disliked are the overrated CE3K and the utterly horrible E.T. I just don't see why they are so popular...
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Old July 9 2014, 02:58 PM   #23
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Temple
Raiders
Crusade
Kingdom
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Old July 9 2014, 04:12 PM   #24
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I like a few of his movies (Duel, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Indy 1 to 3) but on the whole, really don't like Spielbergs movies.

Two of my most disliked are the overrated CE3K and the utterly horrible E.T. I just don't see why they are so popular...
E.T. I can take or leave (though my nine-year old self loved it), but I may have to fight you for dissing Close Encounters.
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Old July 9 2014, 04:54 PM   #25
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Indy 4 just feels "forced". As a filmmaker you normally evolve and mature, and so to go back to the well and try to play your old riffs, even though you did it before, well, it's hard to make it come across quite so sincere as it was the first time. You're older and a different person. You begin to look at the world you created like a third party and you risk misunderstanding what it is you were trying to do in the first place. I got that vibe from the SW Prequels and some of that bled over into Indy 4.

There's a famous quote of Lucas when he was doing the remastered SW, the Jabba scene, where the animators had Han walk on Jabba's tail. Someone says "Do you think that's over the top?" And George says "You can't be too over the top in these sorts of movies." In other words: flat-out camp is not only welcome in SW, but there can never be too much of it. A misconception on his part, which led to stuff like Jar Jar and the Wacky Races two-headed announcer in Phantom Menace.

These things are ultimately lightning in a bottle and even the people who made it may not be able to recreate it no matter how hard they try.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:04 PM   #26
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Cmdr.Druss wrote: View Post
Temple
Raiders
Crusade
Kingdom
Is that a viewing order?
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Old July 9 2014, 05:10 PM   #27
Captain Craig
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Interestingly enough, the late & former U.S. President Ronald Reagan may well have been the inspiration behind TEMPLE of DOOM with one of his (no longer available) movies ...

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=23266

"HONG KONG"
Starring: Ronald Reagan & Rhonda Flemming
Now I need to see this film for sheer curiosity on several levels.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:42 PM   #28
davejames
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

mos6507 wrote: View Post
There's a famous quote of Lucas when he was doing the remastered SW, the Jabba scene, where the animators had Han walk on Jabba's tail. Someone says "Do you think that's over the top?" And George says "You can't be too over the top in these sorts of movies." In other words: flat-out camp is not only welcome in SW, but there can never be too much of it. A misconception on his part, which led to stuff like Jar Jar and the Wacky Races two-headed announcer in Phantom Menace.
Yeah you definitely see a lot of that attitude in Indy 4. You get the sense Lucas thought that the 50s scifi theme gave him an excuse to insert as many cute and campy ideas into the movie as possible. And that there was no real point in taking the story seriously at all.

The fact his original story involved Indy chasing after ghosts in a haunted castle tells you all you need to know. He just seemed to forget entirely what made the original movies work so well. And that Indy still needs to live in a world that feels somewhat grounded and believable.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:50 PM   #29
Trek or Treat!
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

Indy 5 should be a monster movie, with a mad scientist. And silhouettes of a janitor and two robots.
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Old July 9 2014, 05:55 PM   #30
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Re: Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
RAIDERS of the LOST ARK is the only "good" movie in the INDIANA JONES series. After that the decline in quality becomes more marked ...
This would be true if "The Last Crusade" wasn't clearly the best Indiana Jones movie.
Oh, you mean the cartoon version of Indiana Jones?




Doctorwhovian wrote: View Post
Never understand why people think Indy was 'dark' and 'badass' in Raiders.
Well, in Raiders, Indy KILLS a lot of people. Or is directly response for their deaths. And had no remorse. There's not a lot of him killing anyone in Kingdom. MAYBE a little responsible for the guy getting eaten by ants... but...
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