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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 28 2014, 03:11 AM   #76
Ovation
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Seriously. I do wonder sometimes if people actually saw the movies they are so quick to criticize.
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Old June 28 2014, 07:25 AM   #77
teacake
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

I let these movies have their way with me and I was happy.
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Old July 2 2014, 08:15 PM   #78
dammitjim6400
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
dammitjim6400 wrote: View Post
Yes I agree, in TOS Kirk had leadership skills when he was an ENSIGN when he logged a mistake made by Ben Finney, he commanded away teams when he was a Lieutenant.There's no reason why he need to act like a buffoon in JJ Abrams' Trek, if he's to become the hero that we know, of there's no way he'd start out as a total loser.
Pine's Kirk was saving the world and the entire Federation at a time Shatner's Kirk was panicking and freezing at his post ("Obsession")
TOS Kirk may has froze when he was an young officer, but he EARNED his command, Pines Kirk was given the Enterprise through Pike, who regret it later.
Pine's Kirk saved the universe with lots of help from Spock. Without McCoys help he would'nt have gotten on the Enterprise in the first place because of his wreckless attitude, he has no disipline, he's always uncertain, not sure, in the last movie his own crew don't trust his judgment, you can't compare TOS Kirk to this lackey, he's just a kid who manages to get by.
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Old July 2 2014, 08:24 PM   #79
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Poltargyst wrote: View Post
dammitjim6400 wrote: View Post
Yes I agree, in TOS Kirk had leadership skills when he was an ENSIGN when he logged a mistake made by Ben Finney, he commanded away teams when he was a Lieutenant.There's no reason why he need to act like a buffoon in JJ Abrams' Trek, if he's to become the hero that we know, of there's no way he'd start out as a total loser.
Except TOS Kirk's father lived, and NuKirk never knew his father. There's no reason NuKirk has to end up like TOS Kirk.
Still, there's no reason for nuKirk to act so crazy just because he has no father, Pike could had been a role model and other Admirals in the fleet as well if he'd listen to them, instead NuKirk wanted to be a rebel and as a result he feel flat on his face.
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Old July 2 2014, 09:15 PM   #80
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

I think the young Kirk has been a Rebel Without a Cause, and Pike picked up on this aspect.

Maybe, had it not been for Nero, and Kirk had finished his journey to command of the Enterprise along a path similar to the original, he would have learnt more. But he skipped many of those character-building experiences, which then returned to bite him in the ass, and STID brought him back down to Earth hard.

There are other consequences too. Is there a starship out there that has blown up because a young Ensign Kirk wasn't there to notice Finney's mistake? Is there a starship out there with an entirely dead crew as Kirk wasn't there to fire on a cloud-creature when he did?
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Old July 3 2014, 06:32 AM   #81
TayLaLaLa
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

He came to me in a dream. Well, it was a mash up between TOS, TNG, VOY & JJ Trek. [SPOILER]He became a Borg though.[/SPOILER]
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Old July 3 2014, 03:09 PM   #82
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Franklin wrote: View Post
Remember, the opening of STID up to the point of Kirk losing command established that giving him the Enterprise at the end of ST09 was poor judgment by those who did it, including Pike. Even Pike must realize by STID that Kirk wasn't ready for the responsibility. Not yet, anyway. That's why Pike wanted Kirk to be his first officer, to mentor him, and in a way, make up for the mistake of putting him in the captain's chair when he wasn't ready.
I don't object so much to Kirk's new characterization as I do the plot (mostly the first film) being engineered to rush him into the captain's chair years before he could have reasonably earned it. It was obvious that Into Darkness tried to answer that a bit by taking command away, only finding a convenient way to give it to him again when he is STILL too green for the chair. It just commits the same sin all over again.

So the problem is the writing as it filters into the decisions that Starfleet brass make. The only rationalization given is the "you are the chosen one"(TM) message, which is the antithesis of Star Trek. Star Trek stands for a meritocracy where you pay your dues and everyone gets a fair shake. JJ Trek is so retroactively self-aware of the iconic status of these characters that the world itself kneels before them in an unrealistic way.

All of these people are JUST newbies. They aren't prodigies or superheroes and they can't be the only newbies in Starfleet with promising futures. The special abilities we ascribe to them are purely a function of decades of fandom, not the Trek universe's inner-consistency.

The only way someone right out of the academy can get into the captain's chair is through spending hard years in active service (and yes, this includes making mistakes, as prime-Kirk did in his past) something the reboot wasn't willing to allow. They didn't want to film an entire story of Kirk and company at the academy or as ensigns. And they didn't want to insert large gaps of time in some sort of montage to show them moving up the ranks. We're in the 21st century and it's an ADD culture we're dealing with, so Kirk and company all need to fast-track into their TOS roles. Again, fanservice driving the show.

It just wasn't very plausible. You just can't do a "young Star Trek" type of story and a straight TOS story at the same time. They tried to have their cake and eat it too and they wound up with fratboys taking over the ship.
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Old July 4 2014, 09:47 PM   #83
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Re: Chris Pine/Kirk

Anybody seen the Armani ad with Chris Pine as weirdo stalker creep?

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