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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 26 2014, 01:01 AM   #16
pfontaine2
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Regarding Amiga 3D software, I think Videoscape3D was probably the first and that didn't come out until early 1987, if I remember correctly.
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Old June 26 2014, 02:43 AM   #17
Lance
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Amiga truly was ahead of its time. Consider what could be done with the Amiga using Blitter Chips in 1985, the same year the original NES was released (just to give some context). It was a truly amazing computer capable of so much, but I never felt it got the market recognition it deserved, outside of its use in industry applications of course. It fared much better in Europe however.
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Old June 26 2014, 03:33 AM   #18
trevanian
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Maurice wrote: View Post
The question was were there 3D packages available for the Amiga by Autumn of 86? The graphics certainly look to be low enough in scanlines to be a 320x240ish display, but then there are elements like the arrowhead on this image which are do not display jaggies, which is a tipoff that not everything here was generated on a personal computer.
I can barely remember this, but Commodore (pre-Amiga) had a kind of graphics called sprites that were shapes, and I don't think they jagged. I just can't remember whether they were solids or just lines forming a shape though.

Another possibility maybe is that these things were generated conventionally and then picked up the jags during transfer to video for playback?
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Old June 26 2014, 04:40 AM   #19
Workbee
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

The graphics in these images (link below) certainly do look like a blend of computer graphics with animated/other elements added:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tvhhd0217.jpg

Loved these other graphics -- as old as they are, they are still my favorite. Hearkens back to that old vector graphic era in arcade games (ahhh Tempest... must have blown half my college fund on that one).

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tvhhd0218.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tvhhd0219.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tvhhd0220.jpg
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Old June 26 2014, 05:04 AM   #20
trevanian
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Just a little tidbit I found from way way back ... here's part of a paragraph cut from my article on the TUC VFX, which indirectly references TVH graphics.

Brooke Breton was responsible for coordinating the multitude of graphic films and tapes prepared for on-set use by CimityArt. "I had known Barbara Cimity from the two previous films, when she was with Novocom," Breton recalled. "On this project I worked with Cliff Boule, who accomplished this through a combination of traditional animation and digital work using D-1."

Me again. It turns out Novocom also worked on TUC, stuff that was generated on film:https://www.elance.com/samples/star-...ing-/25620142/

Novocom's actual credits on the preceding two films includes the words 'computer animation' so I guess it ain't all traditional.

The stuff in WORKBEE's first example looks seriously uncomputergraphic like. Much more like the displays in Cronenberg's THE FLY, which were done mostly with regular animation (CINEFEX covers that aspect pretty thoroughly if you can grab an issue 28), way too pretty and graphic to be CG from that time.
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Old June 26 2014, 07:16 AM   #21
Mytran
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

There's a lot of smooth shadows and highlights on this Enterprise model. In addition, it is the TOS design!
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Old June 26 2014, 07:56 AM   #22
Melakon
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

I thought Video Toaster existed prior to 1990 despite what Wiki says. I'm sure I first heard of it when I was still living in the midwest and saw a system set up in a computer store.
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Old June 26 2014, 08:47 AM   #23
Maurice
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

There will be jaggies on any sort of diagonal line on a raster computer display, especially back in the 80s. The C-64 screen res was 320x200 in "hi-res" mode. Sprites were low resolution objects, typically 8x8 pixels, with the pixel size matching those of of the pixels in the hi-res mode.

The C-64 color palette spanned a paltry 16 colors, and was too limited to do proper anti-aliasing to hide such jaggies/aliases. Even the Amiga couldn't have rendered that smooth triangle I pointed out.
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Last edited by Maurice; June 26 2014 at 09:26 AM.
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Old June 26 2014, 09:18 AM   #24
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

trekker670 wrote: View Post
Holy name-dropping, Batman!
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Old June 26 2014, 09:27 AM   #25
Maurice
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Who's name dropping? Jim Kent or me?

If me, if I were really name dropping I would've gone for some bigger names I've met.
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Old June 26 2014, 01:06 PM   #26
Myko
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Maurice wrote: View Post
The question was were there 3D packages available for the Amiga by Autumn of 86? The graphics certainly look to be low enough in scanlines to be a 320x240ish display, but then there are elements like the arrowhead on this image which are do not display jaggies, which is a tipoff that not everything here was generated on a personal computer.
One of the lines in the vector graphic thingy on the left is suspiciously free of jaggies as well (lower center). Or it looks like the vertical resolution is much higher than the horizontal.
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Old June 26 2014, 01:27 PM   #27
Tallguy
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Myko wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The question was were there 3D packages available for the Amiga by Autumn of 86? The graphics certainly look to be low enough in scanlines to be a 320x240ish display, but then there are elements like the arrowhead on this image which are do not display jaggies, which is a tipoff that not everything here was generated on a personal computer.
One of the lines in the vector graphic thingy on the left is suspiciously free of jaggies as well (lower center). Or it looks like the vertical resolution is much higher than the horizontal.
There's something going on with the aspect ratio for sure. That's probably why the scan of the TOS Enterprise is squished.

According to this http://www.richardlagendijk.nl/cip/a...commodore_2/en at least the font is an Amiga font. They might not have had a 3D modeling program in '86 but they where doing 3D demo animations from pretty much day one on the Amiga, weren't they?

Those huge displays in Starfleet look hand drawn (for 1986). Another reason why I think the animated stuff like on Spock's teleprompter is computer. If you're going to do 23rd century cell animation you'd make it jaggie free like the Starfleet displays, right?

Also, wouldn't hand animating jaggies that looked just like cutting edge 16 bit animation be somewhat difficult?

But yes, that jaggie-free arrow is weird.

This thread is turning out to be a lot more fun than I expected. Did I mention at the beginning that I think The Voyage Home is possibly the most attractive Star Trek movie ever made?
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Old June 26 2014, 02:25 PM   #28
trevanian
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

Then you must love ACTION JACKSON, it is the only other movie where the smoke levels are so obnoxious (like Chekov running through a CLOUD BANK inside an aircraft carrier) that you have to start laughing while watching it, yet simultaneously feeling bad for what everybody had to breathe on set.
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Old June 26 2014, 02:45 PM   #29
Tallguy
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

trevanian wrote: View Post
Then you must love ACTION JACKSON, it is the only other movie where the smoke levels are so obnoxious (like Chekov running through a CLOUD BANK inside an aircraft carrier) that you have to start laughing while watching it, yet simultaneously feeling bad for what everybody had to breathe on set.
Maybe I'll have to check it out!
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Old June 26 2014, 04:02 PM   #30
Tom Hendricks
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Re: Graphics software in The Voyage Home

In 1987 I had a choice between getting an Atari 1040ST or an Amiga 2000 and I chose the Atari. Lets just say, "I choose poorly."
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