RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 143,877
Posts: 5,638,345
Members: 25,492
Currently online: 466
Newest member: vixisatrekkie

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Dogs of War
By: Michelle on Mar 28

Takei Calls For Boycott
By: T'Bonz on Mar 27

April-May 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Mar 27

Quinto TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Mar 26

Shatner Remembers Nimoy
By: T'Bonz on Mar 26

Star Trek Delta Coin Pouches
By: T'Bonz on Mar 25

Takei Museum Fundraiser In Progress
By: T'Bonz on Mar 25

Star Trek 3 Villain?
By: T'Bonz on Mar 25

Montgomery Comic Book Signing
By: T'Bonz on Mar 24

Mulgrew To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Mar 24

Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.

Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Thread Tools
Old June 20 2014, 08:45 PM   #16
Out there, somewhere...
Trekker4747's Avatar
Location: Kansas City
Re: The Atlantic article on "Shaka, When the Walls Fell"

Salinga wrote: View Post
My problem with "Darmok" is, that the viewer is smarter than the chracters in the story. How their language works is pretty obvious for everyone watching the episode, but not for 24th century people. It always frustated me, how Picard & Co. were massively dumbed down to make the story work, because in real life, even today for most people it would only take 5 minutes to understand what is going on.
I suspect those who had encountered the Tamarians before had some idea what the "structure" of their language was, but that doesn't mean they could be understood. It took the context of the "hunting trip" for Picard to put it together.

For all we know other encounters had the ship crews assuming the language was baffling the UT to the point it was spewing out nonsense.

And, as it discussed in the Juliet example, knowing what they're doing in their communication doesn't translate to being able to understand them, know their motivations, or being able to establish any kind of relationship with them.

But, even setting all of that aside and going meta... That's not the point of the episode. The very idea of a Universal Translator pretty much defies any and all logic and common sense (it just "can" hear and completely new language, compile it, and translate it perfectly into the language of listener, and vice-versa for the benefit of those without a translator on them. And it also can, somehow, manipulate the appearance of the speaker's lips to make it look as if they're speaking the correct tongue. The UT just "can" do this.)

So, yeah, when it boils down to it it should have been obvious to anyone encountering the Tamarians that they're speaking in metaphors, or citing examples for their means of communication and that communication was impossible out of not knowing the references they are making. (Though Troi and Data were able to figure it out pretty easily. Seems one more step in reading the myth about Darmok and Jilad they would've known more about what was going on.) But communication between two people who cannot communicate was sort of the point of the episode. The Tamarian captain and Picard were able to find some means of communication, work together and bond in spite of their linguistic hurdles.
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2014, 01:29 PM   #17
Fleet Captain
borgboy's Avatar
Re: The Atlantic article on "Shaka, When the Walls Fell"

I never thought their language made any sense. How could a language based on stories work? Wouldn't they have to have a language already in order for those stories to be told? I suppose they could have had a "normal" language in the past and it adapted into this bizarre story structure.
This episode always annoys me.
Resistance is futile
borgboy is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.