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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 20 2014, 03:07 AM   #16
bbjeg
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

Poltargyst wrote: View Post
Yes, in previous time travel episodes, the Prime reality was changed without creating a new branch...
Who's to say branches weren't created?
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Old June 20 2014, 03:13 AM   #17
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

I don't think it really matters that much, but if you really must:

StarMan wrote: View Post
You know the deal; Nero arrives via his special anomaly and off shoots a brand new Universe independent of the PRIME™ timeline.
The "prime" timeline long ago established that it was one of an infinite number of alternate universes, some of which featured in the TNG episode "Parallels." (I think that's the correct title.) So if it helps any, I guess you could think of the NuTrek universe as a radical outlier among those alternate universes.

I don't think it's necessary, though. The tie-in to the "prime" universe was a nice nod, but the reboot universe is otherwise very much its own thing.
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Old June 20 2014, 03:22 AM   #18
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Poltargyst wrote: View Post
Yes, in previous time travel episodes, the Prime reality was changed without creating a new branch...
Who's to say branches weren't created?
Well, in all other instances I'm aware of (Yesterday's Enterprise, ST:FC, etc.), the timeline was reset at the end to the same one that it started out as.
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Old June 20 2014, 03:35 AM   #19
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Poltargyst wrote: View Post
Yes, in previous time travel episodes, the Prime reality was changed without creating a new branch...
Who's to say branches weren't created?
Well, in all other instances I'm aware of (Yesterday's Enterprise, ST:FC, etc.), the timeline was reset at the end to the same one that it started out as.
Tell that to Sela and the Borg on ST:Enterprise.
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Old June 20 2014, 03:48 AM   #20
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

^ There's no proof that those things didn't exist before the episodes that introduced them.

Indeed, it seems clear that the Borg's appearance on Enterprise established a closed time loop...
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Old June 20 2014, 02:41 PM   #21
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

StarMan wrote: View Post
The Alternate Timeline in an Alternate Universe Theory is wholly inconsistent with all previous temporal events.
How many of those involved red matter?
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Old June 20 2014, 02:52 PM   #22
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

There are multiple universes in Trek, multiple timelines, and a dozen different ways to go between any of them, from red matter (as Set Harth mentioned) to slingshots, to warp engine malfunctions, to transporter malfunctions, to the Guardian of Forever, to the device in "All Our Yesterdays", to Q, to anomalies, to what-have-you.

Who's to say each one of those methods produces the exact same kind of dimensional or time travel? We have an N = 1 for red matter, and it apparently creates time travel that causes an alternate reality to occur independent of the one that was original. People wanted original ideas from Abrams, et al. Hey, there's an original idea.
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Old June 20 2014, 02:55 PM   #23
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

StarMan wrote: View Post
The Alternate Timeline in an Alternate Universe Theory is wholly inconsistent with all previous temporal events.
You'd have to discount the Mirror Universe and "Parallels" for this to be true.
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Old June 22 2014, 12:42 AM   #24
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
StarMan wrote: View Post
The Alternate Timeline in an Alternate Universe Theory is wholly inconsistent with all previous temporal events.
How many of those involved red matter?
aaaaaand we have a winner.

From a story point of view it's a big honkin' McGuffin, but it works as an excellent way to explain why this is different than every other time travel instance we've seen in Trek so far.

Except "Parallels".
And "Yesterday's Enterprise"

Conclusion: OP, like many "fans" out there, slept through the whole "alternate reality" conversation in the film. Too talky for modern audiences, I suppose...

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Old June 26 2014, 03:57 AM   #25
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

OP, the difference is the nature of the plots. On a basic level, in oldTrek the whole audience perspective was usually given from somebody travelling back and involving themselves in 'fixing' the splinter reality so that it re-aligns with something they already know. I guess NuTrek takes the tack that nobody fixed this one, so it continues on parallel to the original instead of merging back into it.

Admittedly oldTrek (usually) insinuated that there is only one timeline and the reason repairs 'needed' to be made was that if they didn't then the original ceased to exist. But while this was the prevailing view, exceptions did occur. The "fight your fate!" splinter of TNG: Time Squared, or the whole underlying premise of TNG: Parallels which basically contradicted the normal way these things were presented to us in oldTrek. TOS: Mirror, Mirror and all of its DS9 and ENT sequels would also seem to confirm the idea that 'parallel', rather than 'replacement', timelines exist within the Trek causality.

So in summary: Trek time travel logic is basically whatever the writer decides it is at the time.
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Old June 26 2014, 05:56 AM   #26
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

Lance wrote: View Post

So in summary: Trek time travel logic is basically whatever the writer decides it is at the time.
A thousand times this. Trek time travel has never been consistent, and it's entirely because the above statement is true.
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Old June 26 2014, 06:09 AM   #27
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Full reboot or not. Settle in with a cold beer, relax and watch the movies.
Beer? Feh. Coke in a large cup with way too much ice, and popcorn with so-called "butter." That's the way to watch movies.

ETA: They really have me conditioned, don't they?

Last edited by Captrek; June 26 2014 at 06:21 AM.
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Old June 26 2014, 08:11 AM   #28
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
If Chris Hemsworth turns up in two years' time, it'll have turned out to be a big screen take on "Yesterday's Enterprise". Just stretched out into a trilogy.
PICARD: Report, Lieutenant.
WORF: Readings fluctuated momentarily. It appeared to be a ship, but then it vanished.
DATA: The phenomenon is closing in on itself, Captain.
PICARD: Very well. Prepare a class one sensor probe. We'll leave it behind to monitor the final closure.

But instead

Robau: Report, Lieutenant.
Kirk: Readings fluctuated momentarily. It appeared to be a ship, but then it vanished.
Ensign: The phenomenon is closing in on itself, Captain.
Robau: Very well. Prepare a class one sensor probe. We'll leave it behind to monitor the final closure.

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Old June 26 2014, 11:29 AM   #29
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

Ovation wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post

So in summary: Trek time travel logic is basically whatever the writer decides it is at the time.
A thousand times this. Trek time travel has never been consistent, and it's entirely because the above statement is true.
Time travel in Star Trek:
Expectations:

Reality:

The Doctor explained it best
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Old June 26 2014, 12:17 PM   #30
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Re: Abrams Trek Has To be Full Reboot.

SiddFinch1 wrote: View Post
A wizard did it
"That Wizard came from the Moon."
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