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Old June 18 2014, 01:12 AM   #31
Metryq
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

When beavers build a dam, it's "natural" and beautiful. When humans build a dam—even a little one on the local pond—it's an unnatural abomination.

/sarc (just in case anyone didn't know)
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Old June 18 2014, 01:42 AM   #32
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Random_Spock wrote: View Post
farmkid wrote: View Post

Actually no, it wasn't genetic engineering that caused them to lose their taste. It was traditional breeding that caused that, and genetic engineering is being used to fix it. 70 years go, when this change first happened, as stated at the beginning, genetic engineering wasn't even close to possible.

I'll be interested to see how the anti-GMO crowd reacts to these tomatoes. They will be genetically modified to fix a gene that was damaged by traditional breeding and selection, so they will actually be more like heirloom varieties. Yet they will be GMOs.
And I'll be avoiding them like the plague.

They should let people choose what kinds of vegetables they want to eat and not force it upon them.

Not everyone wants to eat genetically modified food.

No matter how they try to dress it, it's still genetically modified.
Is this sarcasm or an attempt at a joke or what?
It's not. I'm downright serious.

Got nothing against people who don't mind them either tbh. It's their choice.
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Old June 18 2014, 01:43 AM   #33
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

So basically, you're opposed to food.
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Old June 18 2014, 01:47 AM   #34
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
So basically, you're opposed to food.
No I'm not. I'm just against genetically modified food. It would be nice if it was labeled as such so anyone who may not want to buy it, don't have to.

I generally try to stick to foods that are organically grown, as much as possible.
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Old June 18 2014, 01:53 AM   #35
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

I'm just going to assume you didn't read a single reply on that last two pages, which pretty described that we've been genetically modifying food for thousands of years. Hell, there's no reason genetically modified food can't also be grown organically.
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Old June 18 2014, 04:43 AM   #36
HIjol
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Farms - growing both GMO and Organic veggies (including tomatos)- butt right up against eachother. For the most part, these crops, they, uh ... they breed by sending their spunk airborne - and downwind! So ... how, uh ... how do these people know that there hasn't been cross-breeding? In fact, Unless an organic farm is in some kind of an arboritum, I don't really see how it can be prevented ...

Here is a thought...


(not a real ad, but would make an interesting pop-up)

Farmers?...are you sick of accidental cross-pollination of your produce?
Sick of being heckled at your local Farmers Market for GMO?
Tired of being called, "Nuke the Cuke" or "The Irradiated Radish"?

Then tractor right down to your Farm Service Store and get you a pack of Spunk-Saver Airborne Preventative Produce Prophylactics...no more pesky mutations...happy customers...sold in packs of 3 or 12...hurry, now...
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Old June 18 2014, 05:01 AM   #37
J. Allen
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

No offense, Random_Spock, but GMOs are the current bogeyman. Genetically modified food is what you've been eating all of your life.

The fact is that thanks to genetically modified food, our planet can support not only every other animal, but also the 7+ billion humans who currently inhabit it. People generally misunderstand GMO, and that genetically modifying food has been going on for thousands of years through crossbreeding and interpollination.

That local grown potato? Watermelon? Apple? All genetically modified seed at some point, before it was ever planted in the soil. Luther Burbank was one of the greatest horticulturists in American history, and he was an avid proponent of genetically modifying food. The only reason it seems so scary today is that now we use different methods, but the science is still sound.

Don't let naturalist sites, and whole foods/organic sites convince you otherwise. They have an agenda to sell, too. The organic foods industry makes $26 billion a year (http://www.ota.com/organic/mt/business.html) in profits, and plenty of people who don't understand the science behind GMO, so they worry for their safety, and the safety of their families. In truth, organic is no safer, no more nutritious than genetically modified food.

If anything, GMOs save our forests. A GM based farm can produce far, far more food using less arable land. The organic movement may mean well, but they're shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

Here is some reading I recommend:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/sc...duce.html?_r=1

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/120904.html

http://blog.cifor.org/12350/scientis...a#.UWcFYrWG2So

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ood-population

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47829728/A...-Organic-Crops
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Old June 18 2014, 10:26 AM   #38
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I'm just going to assume you didn't read a single reply on that last two pages, which pretty described that we've been genetically modifying food for thousands of years. Hell, there's no reason genetically modified food can't also be grown organically.
Ah I think there's a misunderstanding. You refer to species that have gradually been bred. That's a natural genetic modification.
What Random_Spock means is genetically manipulated/engineered stuff. That one is built within one generation by using vector-DNA (also nicknamed jumping genes) as a vehicle to insert totally foreign DNA into an organism.

[digression: a very general and lay-ish explanation of how this works:
You cut out the gene you want to insert into the target organism and attach it to a vector gene. The vector gene is like a taxi that brings your gene into the target organism's cell core.
It cuts open the target's DNA in a random space and itserts itself and the new gene into the DNA. Repair enzymes detect the broken DNA-chain and close the gap, most of the time overlooking the fact that a new bit of DNA has been inserted. Often the new DNA is in a wrong place and simply creates an indecipherable muddle which often causes no harm. In other cases it can lead to cancer or cell death. Very few times it happens to be in a place where it gets properly read and decoded. Then your gene manipulation was successful.

Vector-DNA appears naturally and is a means of some viruses to transport and insert their genetic information into their host's genome to force it to build more viruses.]

The problem with vector-DNA is that it jumps not only into the genome when you want it but also jumps out of it and inserts itself into a different organism without any warning (hence the nickname jumping genes). Vectors are totally unpredictable. That's what makes them so dangerous: if you eat them, you may end up with no damage to your own DNA. Or you might end up with a tomato-flavoured tumor.

With the classical Mendelian breeding there is no such danger as this kind of enhancement works with totally stable genes that stay in their places. Hence such food is safe to eat.


Btw, over here in Germany, genetically engineered ingredients must be listed on a product. Genetically engineered fruit or veggies don't get sold at all as there is literally no market for them. Consumers here are strongly opposed to that stuff and would boycott its sales.
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Old June 21 2014, 12:47 AM   #39
thestrangequark
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

J. Allen wrote: View Post
No offense, Random_Spock, but GMOs are the current bogeyman. Genetically modified food is what you've been eating all of your life.

The fact is that thanks to genetically modified food, our planet can support not only every other animal, but also the 7+ billion humans who currently inhabit it. People generally misunderstand GMO, and that genetically modifying food has been going on for thousands of years through crossbreeding and interpollination.

That local grown potato? Watermelon? Apple? All genetically modified seed at some point, before it was ever planted in the soil. Luther Burbank was one of the greatest horticulturists in American history, and he was an avid proponent of genetically modifying food. The only reason it seems so scary today is that now we use different methods, but the science is still sound.

Don't let naturalist sites, and whole foods/organic sites convince you otherwise. They have an agenda to sell, too. The organic foods industry makes $26 billion a year (http://www.ota.com/organic/mt/business.html) in profits, and plenty of people who don't understand the science behind GMO, so they worry for their safety, and the safety of their families. In truth, organic is no safer, no more nutritious than genetically modified food.

If anything, GMOs save our forests. A GM based farm can produce far, far more food using less arable land. The organic movement may mean well, but they're shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

Here is some reading I recommend:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/sc...duce.html?_r=1

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/120904.html

http://blog.cifor.org/12350/scientis...a#.UWcFYrWG2So

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ood-population

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47829728/A...-Organic-Crops
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Old June 21 2014, 01:35 PM   #40
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
The problem with vector-DNA is that it jumps not only into the genome when you want it but also jumps out of it and inserts itself into a different organism without any warning (hence the nickname jumping genes). Vectors are totally unpredictable. That's what makes them so dangerous: if you eat them, you may end up with no damage to your own DNA. Or you might end up with a tomato-flavoured tumor.
I have never once heard this suggested even by the craziest of anti-GMO activists. Do you have any citations at all for this happening in humans due to GMO crops?
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Old June 21 2014, 02:05 PM   #41
2takesfrakes
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

HIjol wrote: View Post
Farmers?...are you sick of accidental cross-pollination of your produce?
((...snicker))
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Old June 21 2014, 02:17 PM   #42
JarodRussell
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

The great misconception that somehow got stuck into people's head's is that genetically modified food somehow alters your DNA. I'm wondering how that ever came up in the first place. Probably an extension of the saying "You are what you eat", but nobody so far has turned into fish, pork or vegetables.
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Old June 21 2014, 02:25 PM   #43
sojourner
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

There's nothing wrong with genetically modified food. The problem is companies like Monsanto using the patents to bully people.
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Old June 21 2014, 05:36 PM   #44
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

It's not that the companies are evil, it's that they happen to be in the same position as a lot of software companies, where the product they spent a lot of money developing, once made available, can be easily copied an infinite number of times by anyone.

Faced with the same issue back in the 1980's, software developers (especially for games) came out with all sorts of irritating anti-piracy software. The music and movie industries tried all sorts of other schemes, and often tried massive lawsuits against people who had pirated copies.
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Old June 21 2014, 05:46 PM   #45
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Re: Genetically engineered tomatoes

Except that the GMO crops have a tendency to be planted close enough to non-gmo crops that cross fertilization happens. The companies then go after the non-gmo farmer for "stealing".

It would be sort of like a software company releasing a computer virus on the internet and then suing the owners of infected PC's for piracy.
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