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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 11 2014, 01:18 PM   #16
Mario de Monti
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The image above makes me wonder: Is that the Death Star on the left side?
That was my first thought too when I just saw the picture.
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Old June 14 2014, 08:28 PM   #17
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

I would love it if bob had done some art on what he thought a new Enterprise would look like--same with Syd Mead and Luigi Colani
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/200621358372490681/
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/400961173047252728/
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/530158187357123857/

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Old June 15 2014, 12:20 AM   #18
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

Colani's stuff would really fit with the 'technology unchained/unleashed' dictum, where the vessel is as much an art form as a craft. I used to have a book of his stuff (lots of beautiful space shuttle work as well as cars) until it fell to pieces.

For me, he and John Berkey (who is THE guy for painting spaceships) would have been excellent sources of inspiration in terms of not just conceptual art, but having material actually built to match their visions.
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Old June 15 2014, 08:19 PM   #19
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

B.J. wrote: View Post
I really liked this painting of his because it really shows (better than the movie IMO) how HUGE V'Ger was!
Ahhhh, John Berkey. I both love and hate his work. It's always gorgeous and his paintings have graced the covers of some of my favorite science fiction novels. BUT he has perfected the art of implying detail that isn't really there. Those sharp divisions on smooth forms, the whispy lines of antennae, the convoluted asymmetry ... every time I see one of his paintings I pause. I study. I try to make sense of the details and glean a sense of how its supposed to work. AND IT NEVER DOES!

But I fall for it anyway. Every time.
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Old June 15 2014, 09:36 PM   #20
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

publiusr wrote: View Post
I would love it if bob had done some art on what he thought a new Enterprise would look like--same with Syd Mead and Luigi Colani.
I don't know if Syd Mead would feel okay designing a new Enterprise (he introduced me to Andrew Probert) but I know that Andrew Probert has drawn a lot of inspiration from Luigi Colani because he said so.

Therefore, in a manner of speaking, Andrew's style reflects a certain Colani touch, which I think becomes even more evident in Andrew's design proposal for the Enterprise-F.

(I was a fan of Colani before I became a fan of Probert )

I also agree with the comments on John Berkey, I feel about his work somewhat like Jonathan Frakes felt about "Yesterday's Enterprise": I do not know what the fu** happened in that episode. I'm still trying to understand it – but I liked the look."

Bob
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Old June 15 2014, 11:02 PM   #21
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

There is a real art to interpretting and translating conceptualist's work to physical form; Mark Stetson is on record (regarding 2010) that he had to fill in on some of Mead's work for the Leonov, that it wasn't all as detailed as it needed to be (I've got a huge book of Mead's that has a whole section on 2010 and the stuff looks detailed as hell to me, but Stetson isn't likely to fib about such stuff. Pat McClung said something similar about the SULACO in ALIENS, where he performed a similar task.)

The thing with Berkey's is that if you actually build what is IMPLIED in his art, you will probably come out very nice indeed. You have these boat hull sweeps, but then there are impressions of detail, and by just building little bits you can get the idea across, BUT ... you have to cheat the lighting to make it work. It is kind of hard to explain, but in order to get the Berkey look on a physical object in space, you have to have the traditional heavy key light, but then you have to embellish with bits of light that illuminate underneath those hull curves in those detail areas, enhancing shadows cast by the little filligree bits. Basically, you have to customize lighting to make it look right, but to some degree miniature DPs have always had to do that (like all the dental mirrors to light up bits of the refit.)

That 2cents of advice is based on some half-assed experiments I did in the late 80s and early 90s with scratchbuilds that sought to mimic the Berkey look.

My dream scenario was getting Berkey onboard as conceptual designer for a film around a quarter-century back, essentially to do what McCall began on THE BLACK HOLE, but without the reversal of style that happened there when Ellenshaw came on. Sometimes the doubling back approach works (ALIEN seems to benefit from how Cobb's NOSTROMO art got twisted somehow into what we got), but the idea of a BerkeyVerse really seems like someplace I'd want to go play in with my own concepts. It's sort of like writing scenes while listening to Goldsmith or using Goldsmith to temptrack your cut, it isn't just illustrating what you want, but giving inspiration to embelliish as well.
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Old June 20 2014, 06:05 PM   #22
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

Psion wrote: View Post



As is common with McCall works, the spectacular background often overshadows the subject. Note the interesting detail representing the warp field emitted by the engines. In McCall's vision, warp drive left a distinct, luminescent wake.
I forwarded the image to Andrew Probert and here is what he had to say about it:

"We [him and McCall] did talk, a couple of times, but this warp-interlace idea was totally being considered when Mr. McCall did this series of promotional paintings. This idea was very close to being implemented for a while."

Bob
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Old June 21 2014, 07:51 PM   #23
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

trevanian wrote: View Post
My dream scenario was getting Berkey onboard as conceptual designer for a film around a quarter-century back, essentially to do what McCall began on THE BLACK HOLE, but without the reversal of style that happened there when Ellenshaw came on.
Now IIRC, Cygnus was a little more slab-sided, less Eiffel tower then--rather like some of the early Buck Rogers in the 25th Century art? Or was Bob's painting the one in the Cygnus dining room where the ship looked even larger, with even more of that supertanker deck look?

In terms of the warp interlace effect--instead of that being used for travel, I can see it being used for something else...capturing some energy creature between two nacelles, or perhaps a shuttlecraft rising between the two nacelles, the small shuttle nacelles energy locking with the main starship nacelles, and racing backwards as a plane on a carrier deck...
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Old June 21 2014, 11:40 PM   #24
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Psion wrote: View Post



As is common with McCall works, the spectacular background often overshadows the subject. Note the interesting detail representing the warp field emitted by the engines. In McCall's vision, warp drive left a distinct, luminescent wake.
I forwarded the image to Andrew Probert and here is what he had to say about it:

"We [him and McCall] did talk, a couple of times, but this warp-interlace idea was totally being considered when Mr. McCall did this series of promotional paintings. This idea was very close to being implemented for a while."

Bob
Outstanding! Thanks for doing that. I wonder if it was Jesco von Puttkamer (science advisor to ST:TMP) who put the kibosh on that notion. I remember reading that he felt that any sound or light display would represent an inefficiency in the system. Of course, the final look of warp drive in that movie went spectacularly loud and bright anyway.

It's amusing that the latest film, Star Trek Into Darkness returns to the concept of warp drive leaving a "wake". Although in that movie's case, it's more a kind of pixie dust that glitters in the space formerly occupied by the nacelles.
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Old June 22 2014, 12:28 AM   #25
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Re: NASA artist Bob McCall's TMP paintings

I think the 'effect between nacelles' was actually inspired by VonP's memo. I remember it as saying something like wanting a subdued rippling around the nacelles (maybe in TMOSTTMP?)

The Mccall TBH thing WAS slabsided, it is like Ellenshaw tore the hull off and left the pompidou centre effect. If you have STARLOG 16, I think there are some conceptuals McCall did for BUCK ROGERS that leverage a little bit off of his CYGNUS.
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