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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 13 2014, 03:36 AM   #46
Timby
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
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Shatner's direction is superb ...


... >>SNORT!!!<<
Show me a better single shot in any of the first six films than everyone on the bridge being astonished at the appearance of "God" ... and the camera slowly moving towards the tactical screen showing the incoming Bird of Prey.
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Old June 13 2014, 11:30 AM   #47
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

I will have to get back to you, on that one. In the meantime, sir, I must concede that you've bested me. I can't think of one, right now ... I haven't even had my first cup of coffee, yet!
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Old June 13 2014, 01:09 PM   #48
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

I've always maintained Shatner's directorial style and technical execution thereof is actually rather good - creative and energetic. Honestly, I prefer his style to Nimoy's. I really don't believe TFF's problems are related to the direction per se.
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Old June 13 2014, 04:31 PM   #49
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Oh, I don't think it's outlandish at all to prefer Shatner's style to Nimoy's -- I never cared for the way Nimoy directed the actors (Shatner is just painful in a lot of Search for Spock, and there's the whole butchery of Saavik), and his camera placements and blocking are pretty much straight out of '80s TV, lacking any creativity or kinetic sense. Nimoy knows two shots: Wide coverage and close-up.
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Old June 14 2014, 12:56 AM   #50
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Timby wrote: View Post
Nimoy knows two shots: Wide coverage and close-up.
What, Nimoy exaggerating close-ups?

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Old June 14 2014, 03:45 AM   #51
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
johnjm22 wrote: View Post
I don't see how anyone can call this the worst Trek movie ever considering the awfulness of Insurrection and Nemesis.
I often find that folks lump the three films together at the bottom, but I don't think there's a consensus on which one is THE worst. I personally put TFF at the last place because it's just too embarrassing to see the TOS crew be in such a turkey.
As opposed to being in THREE turkeys like GEN, INS, and NEMESIS?
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Old June 14 2014, 04:34 AM   #52
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

JT Perfecthair wrote: View Post
Amazing how "far" the world has come in 25 years. Imagine if Shats original ideas for this movie were allowed to go forward, you'd have the orbital skydive and the attack of the rock monsters which would have been interesting but he wanted Kirk to find God. Not an alien, not some guy faking it, actually portray on screen The One True God, who I bet would have looked a lot like the final version the alien chooses to appear like anyway. Can you imagine how that would go over today? Shatner would have a fatwa on his head, assuming you could ever release the thing outside North America.
Just to clear up a couple of points.

The orbital skydive scene was the planned opening of Generations (which was neither written, nor directed by Shatner), NOT The Final Frontier.

In actuality, it was Shatner's plan to have Kirk find Satan pretending to be God. I don't have a problem with this myself and doubt that it would be all that controversial except to staunch non-believers.

As to my own reminiscing...

I had just graduated High School a few days before this film premiered. I initially loved it, then got annoyed with its obvious flaws. Thankfully, middle-age has mellowed me somewhat and the film remains one my favorites. Shatner's direction was awesome IMO and vastly superior to Nimoy's and Meyer's. It's a shame that there were so many problems going on during production and that Shatner had to compromise so much on what he actually wanted to initially do.

Like others have done in here, I fully acknowledge that the movie has some pretty big warts. Nevertheless, Star Trek V is definitely in my top three and, IMHO, is one of the two that captures the spirit of the Original Series the best (the other one being TMP).
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Old June 14 2014, 01:07 PM   #53
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Posted this in another thread but will repeat here.

I have and have heard many opinions on how this movie could be made better, and a FX makeover would help. Could this movie be given the Star Wars treatment, adding elements not in the original in service of filling out the film?

This movie contrasts sharply with TUC in political feel. TUC is very much a bigger film than just the TOS crew. We see and understand motive power behind Klingon and Federation. TFF SHOULD be even bigger, since Federation, Klingon, AND Romulan governments are involved. But we don't see anything more than a two minute Harve Bennett cameo and a one-liner and a couple of grunts from Korrd to suggest that any of these governments give a rats ass about what is going on.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:38 PM   #54
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

austen_pierce wrote: View Post

I have and have heard many opinions on how this movie could be made better, and a FX makeover would help.
This is one of the few examples I can think of where an effects upgrade might help. The Final Frontier always felt out of place with the other TOS films, partially because the effects kinda throw you out of the "universe". It's not because they are bad (they are) but that they are inconsistent with the rest of the films.
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Old June 15 2014, 11:46 AM   #55
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Here we see Spock neckpinching a blue unicorn -- and you worry about the little punk? how much awesome does it take with you?
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Old June 20 2014, 08:25 PM   #56
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

This movie's really not perfect, but it's a guitly pleasure for me...no wait, I don't feel any guilt about. I like the "casual" setting, they're not saving Earth from a strange probe, neither the galactic peace, they're not creating a planet, they're not acting as pariah, etc, they're on a "regular" assignment as in TOS. It's Star Trek goes Indiana Jones. Objectively a weak Star Trek movie, but I prefer it to TMP.
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Old June 20 2014, 08:43 PM   #57
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Posted this in another thread but will repeat here.

I have and have heard many opinions on how this movie could be made better, and a FX makeover would help. Could this movie be given the Star Wars treatment, adding elements not in the original in service of filling out the film?

This movie contrasts sharply with TUC in political feel. TUC is very much a bigger film than just the TOS crew. We see and understand motive power behind Klingon and Federation. TFF SHOULD be even bigger, since Federation, Klingon, AND Romulan governments are involved. But we don't see anything more than a two minute Harve Bennett cameo and a one-liner and a couple of grunts from Korrd to suggest that any of these governments give a rats ass about what is going on.
I agree 100%.

It always seemed like it they were acting like it was a big event but they didn't show us that it really was.

Why wasn't there a Romulan ship sent as well? That would have been better than the money they spent on Sybok's army storming Paradise City (most of which was cut)

Enterprise or the Klingons could have engaged the romulans who wanted to be there first at all costs. Why was it a junior officer sent instead of a battle tested commander (cause the two young actors were working for cheap?)

Why was it the BOP AGAIN? We saw in the original series that the D7s could cloak. (cheaper to film the BOP?)

Why the 3rd rate "actress" to play Dar? (because she was cheap?)

It wanted to pretend it was an epic story while wasting time on idiotic humor and the ship being broken. WTF?

Hire David Warner and give him NOTHING to do?

There was a lot more wrong than the FX and the forced humor.

They promised the audience an action story and gave us none except Sybok vs. the paradise city police? and Kirk vs Sybok's ragtag band.

That's a promise broken.

no proper space battle, no proper hand to hand action and no proper firefights.

Trek doesn't need those things (at least not in 1989) but don't promise and not deliver.
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Old June 20 2014, 10:34 PM   #58
Armored Saint
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Grant wrote: View Post
Why was it a junior officer sent instead of a battle tested commander (cause the two young actors were working for cheap?)
The Federation sent a Lada to save his disavowed diplomat and considering the Federation is way more generous than the Klingon Empire..

Oh, is it true they covered Dar's ears to save money?
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Old June 21 2014, 06:50 PM   #59
austen_pierce
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Grant wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
Posted this in another thread but will repeat here.

I have and have heard many opinions on how this movie could be made better, and a FX makeover would help. Could this movie be given the Star Wars treatment, adding elements not in the original in service of filling out the film?

This movie contrasts sharply with TUC in political feel. TUC is very much a bigger film than just the TOS crew. We see and understand motive power behind Klingon and Federation. TFF SHOULD be even bigger, since Federation, Klingon, AND Romulan governments are involved. But we don't see anything more than a two minute Harve Bennett cameo and a one-liner and a couple of grunts from Korrd to suggest that any of these governments give a rats ass about what is going on.
I agree 100%.

It always seemed like it they were acting like it was a big event but they didn't show us that it really was.

Why wasn't there a Romulan ship sent as well? That would have been better than the money they spent on Sybok's army storming Paradise City (most of which was cut)

Enterprise or the Klingons could have engaged the romulans who wanted to be there first at all costs. Why was it a junior officer sent instead of a battle tested commander (cause the two young actors were working for cheap?)

Why was it the BOP AGAIN? We saw in the original series that the D7s could cloak. (cheaper to film the BOP?)

Why the 3rd rate "actress" to play Dar? (because she was cheap?)

It wanted to pretend it was an epic story while wasting time on idiotic humor and the ship being broken. WTF?

Hire David Warner and give him NOTHING to do?

There was a lot more wrong than the FX and the forced humor.

They promised the audience an action story and gave us none except Sybok vs. the paradise city police? and Kirk vs Sybok's ragtag band.

That's a promise broken.

no proper space battle, no proper hand to hand action and no proper firefights.

Trek doesn't need those things (at least not in 1989) but don't promise and not deliver.

Thanks, Grant!

Had a thought on David Warner. In the finale, in addition to Enterprise and the BoP side by side, have these two centerpiece ships surrounded by the FREAKING FLEETS of Federation, Romulan, and Klingon battle cruisers which had had PLENTY of time to get there. Cut to the officers lounge where in addition to our heroes, Klaa's crew, and the ambassadors, we see the true heads of state in the Federation President, Romulan Emperor (not sure who that would have been), and... wait for it... have David Warner present as Gorkon (but be careful to avoid seeing Warner in both roles on screen at the same time). When Kirk shows respect to Klaa (adding Gorkon at the latter's side), he now acknowledges the need for peace among them. This incident is after all a serious threat to galactic peace, so IMO a valid argument can be made for having the heads of state there, and again IMO it would give the film the larger feel it needs. It would also better set up TUC which immediately threatens that peace with treachery within these same three governments.

Poking holes in this (constructively) is welcome. I love this kind of what-if debate. The first stick in the mud is that the ending as is ties up the rivalry between Kirk and Klaa, but that's disposable anyway. Klaa is no Kirk. At all.
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