RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,945
Posts: 5,479,336
Members: 25,056
Currently online: 574
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 12 2014, 12:26 PM   #196
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Your own personal continuity

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
That's not what I recall. Wasn't it that he just expressed discomfort to what hero status he had been elevated to?
Gene Roddenberry, writing as James T. Kirk in the first person, pages 7 and 8:

Unfortunately, Starfleet's enthusiasm affected even those who chronicled our adventures, and we were all painted somewhat larger than life, especially myself.
Eventually, I found that I had been fictionalized into some sort of "Modern Ulysses" [...] ... As a result, I have become determined that if I ever find myself involved in an affair attracting public attention, I would insist that some way be found to tell the story more accurately.

In other words, the TOS we saw wasn't the real thing. Gene Roddenberry's little way of jettisoning everything he'd thought better of since the 60's.
I think this is just conjectural speculation because we do not really know to what these "chronicled adventures" refer to (written articles in public magazines or the actual TOS episodes?).

And how were the crew members painted "larger than life"?

Do we instead have to assume
  • that the chief engineer was constantly drunk and exaggerating his actual capabilities?
  • that the navigator was a fanatic, rebellious Russia lover, wearing actually a red star in his insignia and constantly talked about the great Soviet Union and how much communism laid the foundation of the UFP?
  • that the helmsman was such a knife and dagger lover that he constantly brought one to the Bridge and had strange daydreaming fantasies ("And the Children...")?
  • that the doctor, too, was most of the time drunk, explaining his permanent cursing, and incompetent (according to the Klingons in TUC)?
  • that the communications officer permanently had to be asked to speak in English and not Swahili?
Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 06:25 PM   #197
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Location: comfortably residing in the meat packing district
Re: Your own personal continuity

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
In other words, the TOS we saw wasn't the real thing. Gene Roddenberry's little way of jettisoning everything he'd thought better of since the 60's.
With all due respect to the ashes of Roddenberry circling this planet, I'll stick with the original episodes and their depiction of events.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13 2014, 01:38 AM   #198
Cyke101
Rear Admiral
 
Cyke101's Avatar
 
Re: Your own personal continuity

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
That's not what I recall. Wasn't it that he just expressed discomfort to what hero status he had been elevated to?
Gene Roddenberry, writing as James T. Kirk in the first person, pages 7 and 8:

Unfortunately, Starfleet's enthusiasm affected even those who chronicled our adventures, and we were all painted somewhat larger than life, especially myself.
Eventually, I found that I had been fictionalized into some sort of "Modern Ulysses" [...] ... As a result, I have become determined that if I ever find myself involved in an affair attracting public attention, I would insist that some way be found to tell the story more accurately.

In other words, the TOS we saw wasn't the real thing. Gene Roddenberry's little way of jettisoning everything he'd thought better of since the 60's.
I think this is just conjectural speculation because we do not really know to what these "chronicled adventures" refer to (written articles in public magazines or the actual TOS episodes?).

And how were the crew members painted "larger than life"?

Do we instead have to assume
  • that the chief engineer was constantly drunk and exaggerating his actual capabilities?
  • that the navigator was a fanatic, rebellious Russia lover, wearing actually a red star in his insignia and constantly talked about the great Soviet Union and how much communism laid the foundation of the UFP?
  • that the helmsman was such a knife and dagger lover that he constantly brought one to the Bridge and had strange daydreaming fantasies ("And the Children...")?
  • that the doctor, too, was most of the time drunk, explaining his permanent cursing, and incompetent (according to the Klingons in TUC)?
  • that the communications officer permanently had to be asked to speak in English and not Swahili?
Bob
I kind of imagine this "larger than life" reputation is why Mr. Adventure was genuinely confused by Uhura picking essentially a desk job, Preston a wee bit in awe of the ship, Klaa wanting the fairly obsessed honor of hunting Kirk, the crew minus Kirk keeping their ranks after court martial, and why the Enterprise was picked to meet with Kronos-1.

But if nothing else, I suppose it goes to show that word-of-mouth rumor mills are still a thing in the future, even with the vast gulfs of space. Details can be exaggerated, taken out of context, or changed in other ways quite quickly when it comes to rumors, hearsay, and gossip.
__________________
“You do not use science in order to prove yourself right, you use science in order to become right.”

Last edited by Cyke101; June 13 2014 at 07:27 AM.
Cyke101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13 2014, 11:23 AM   #199
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Your own personal continuity

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
That's not what I recall. Wasn't it that he just expressed discomfort to what hero status he had been elevated to?
Gene Roddenberry, writing as James T. Kirk in the first person, pages 7 and 8:

Unfortunately, Starfleet's enthusiasm affected even those who chronicled our adventures, and we were all painted somewhat larger than life, especially myself.
Eventually, I found that I had been fictionalized into some sort of "Modern Ulysses" [...] ... As a result, I have become determined that if I ever find myself involved in an affair attracting public attention, I would insist that some way be found to tell the story more accurately.

In other words, the TOS we saw wasn't the real thing. Gene Roddenberry's little way of jettisoning everything he'd thought better of since the 60's.
I think this is just conjectural speculation because we do not really know to what these "chronicled adventures" refer to (written articles in public magazines or the actual TOS episodes?).
Given Roddenberry's opinions of TOS (see canonwars link on the prior page), I think it's hard to interpret it in any other way than as a direct reference to the classic series.
And how were the crew members painted "larger than life"?
I think its fair to say Kirk and crew were larger than life heroes throughout TOS (and TAS and the movies). Everything from beating impossible odds every week to coming back the next completely devoid of psychological trauma, falling in love several times in the space of 50 minutes, lots and lots of fantasy magic science and countless other examples common to television shows paint them as such.

I also wonder if this "popular depiction" explanation was meant to explain why everything looks so completely different in the movies than it did in TOS. It's in no way a believable in-universe evolution, not one control console in the movies at all resembles what came in TOS except in their most basic layout around the bridge. And then there are the Klingons, which Roddenberry claimed for years were always meant to look as they did in the movies.
T'Girl wrote: View Post
With all due respect to the ashes of Roddenberry circling this planet, I'll stick with the original episodes and their depiction of events.

For once, we are in agreement
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13 2014, 11:40 AM   #200
Mario de Monti
Captain
 
Mario de Monti's Avatar
 
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Your own personal continuity

Personally I view each series (including the Abrams movies) as something like "variations on a theme" and enjoy them separately without trying to fit together bits and pieces that simply don´t go together. Too many people have been involved with Trek over the decades for everything to comprise one coherent universe.
For me at least this attitude works very well

teacake wrote: View Post
Janeway and 7 were totally doing it.
Would be interesting to see ...
__________________
"Do you give me attitude, Spock?" - "I´m expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, Sir. To which are you referring?"
Mario de Monti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13 2014, 06:28 PM   #201
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Location: comfortably residing in the meat packing district
Re: Your own personal continuity

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Janeway and 7 were totally doing it.
Would be interesting to see ...
Janeway: "The Doctor failed to mention that particular "implant."

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 03:12 AM   #202
LordMudd
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Pasadena, TX.
Re: Your own personal continuity

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Janeway and 7 were totally doing it.
Would be interesting to see ...
Janeway: "The Doctor failed to mention that particular "implant."

Reminds me of an idea I had once: the swiss army Borg. Interchangeable attachments for any occasion.

CCC.
LordMudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 09:31 AM   #203
Mario de Monti
Captain
 
Mario de Monti's Avatar
 
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Your own personal continuity

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Janeway and 7 were totally doing it.
Would be interesting to see ...
Janeway: "The Doctor failed to mention that particular "implant."

Now it sounds even more interesting ...
__________________
"Do you give me attitude, Spock?" - "I´m expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, Sir. To which are you referring?"
Mario de Monti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 12:15 PM   #204
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Your own personal continuity

I am totes on board.

Borg.. appliances. Need to see more stat.

I mean.. assmimlate?! They can't be that stupid.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 01:16 PM   #205
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Your own personal continuity

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

Gene Roddenberry, writing as James T. Kirk in the first person, pages 7 and 8:

Unfortunately, Starfleet's enthusiasm affected even those who chronicled our adventures, and we were all painted somewhat larger than life, especially myself.
Eventually, I found that I had been fictionalized into some sort of "Modern Ulysses" [...] ... As a result, I have become determined that if I ever find myself involved in an affair attracting public attention, I would insist that some way be found to tell the story more accurately.

In other words, the TOS we saw wasn't the real thing. Gene Roddenberry's little way of jettisoning everything he'd thought better of since the 60's.
I think this is just conjectural speculation because we do not really know to what these "chronicled adventures" refer to (written articles in public magazines or the actual TOS episodes?).

And how were the crew members painted "larger than life"?

Do we instead have to assume
  • that the chief engineer was constantly drunk and exaggerating his actual capabilities?
  • that the navigator was a fanatic, rebellious Russia lover, wearing actually a red star in his insignia and constantly talked about the great Soviet Union and how much communism laid the foundation of the UFP?
  • that the helmsman was such a knife and dagger lover that he constantly brought one to the Bridge and had strange daydreaming fantasies ("And the Children...")?
  • that the doctor, too, was most of the time drunk, explaining his permanent cursing, and incompetent (according to the Klingons in TUC)?
  • that the communications officer permanently had to be asked to speak in English and not Swahili?
Bob
I kind of imagine this "larger than life" reputation is why Mr. Adventure was genuinely confused by Uhura picking essentially a desk job, Preston a wee bit in awe of the ship, Klaa wanting the fairly obsessed honor of hunting Kirk, the crew minus Kirk keeping their ranks after court martial, and why the Enterprise was picked to meet with Kronos-1.

But if nothing else, I suppose it goes to show that word-of-mouth rumor mills are still a thing in the future, even with the vast gulfs of space. Details can be exaggerated, taken out of context, or changed in other ways quite quickly when it comes to rumors, hearsay, and gossip.
I kind of view it that way. I think TOS happened exactly as we saw it onscreen, but there was a lot of stuff that was exaggerated or is more myth than fact by the public (I could see someone writing that during the Enterprise's encounter with the alien entity Apollo in "Who Mourns For Adonais?" Kirk simply defeated a god with his bare hands, when it really didn't happen that way).
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 03:34 PM   #206
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Your own personal continuity

^^ I agree, especially considering that he did defeat a "god" partially with bare hands in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (although there were no witnesses).

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 05:13 PM   #207
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Your own personal continuity

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
^^ I agree, especially considering that he did defeat a "god" partially with bare hands in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (although there were no witnesses).
In a sense, that's what I'm talking about, how certain details are embellished, overlooked, or just personally termed. In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the truth was that Kirk actually used a phaser rifle to stop a crewmember with mutated telepathic and telekinetic powers, and even then by using it indirectly to create a rockslide to crush him.

Someone else might say that Kirk shot a "god" with a phaser rifle or might leave out the phaser rifle bit altogether, making Kirk look even more bad-arse than he actually was in the situation.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."

Last edited by C.E. Evans; June 14 2014 at 08:20 PM. Reason: can't spelle
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.