RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,747
Posts: 5,433,196
Members: 24,838
Currently online: 461
Newest member: Mei'konda

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 10 2014, 02:06 PM   #31
Bad Thoughts
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
Re: Pegasus and TATV

Why did the conflict need to be focused on Riker? If there was something unresolved from Nemesis, it was the mental rape of Troi. It might have made more sense to draw comparisons to TPol and Trip's problems, and might have had more emotional impact.
Bad Thoughts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 02:08 PM   #32
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Pegasus and TATV

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
I don't know, maybe that idea sucks, but to me, it makes more sense than re-treading Pegasus, which I thought was a pretty forgettable episode.
I thought "Pegasus" had a good solid theme, i.e. how long do you follow orders that are probably illegal and when is the moment to break these? Admittedly, the conclusion wasn't the best of possible choices (Riker introducing Picard to an alternative when it seemed there wasn't one), but for me it was still entertaining to see Riker's reactions to Pressman first and understanding these watching the episode a second time.

I think it was one of better episodes of TNG's Season Seven (although there may have not been that many better episodes in this particular season ).

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 05:20 PM   #33
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Pegasus and TATV

teacake wrote: View Post
2takes you seem to think that TATV fixed something. ENT sold out by not having the words Star Trek in it for two seasons and TATV fixed this 2 season gap in Star Trekkiness.
... Agreed! ENTERPRISE did sell out, by trying to attract those turned-off by the "STAR TREK" brand by not including that label, in its title for the first couple seasons.

teacake wrote: View Post
As to ENT denying Star Trek ties ... most people complain it was boring because the first two seasons just retread Star Trek of the past and did nothing new and that it was fanwanky because the fourth season was filled with Star Trek references.
"Denying ties," again, was referencing the STAR TREKLESS ENT titles, only. I wasn't referring to actual content, per se.

teacake wrote: View Post
ENT was totally Star Trek, filled to the brim with Star Trek, having the words there or not there made no difference at all.
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Right out of the pen, ENTERPRISE had been presented without the STAR TREK moniker, whilst utilizing practically every popular element of (STAR TREK).
^ See ... no argument, there.

teacake wrote: View Post
The most broken thing about ENT was TATV.
A sentiment you share with many others - yes, indeed. Yes, indeed! Well ... I guess that's about it.

So, with that, I now leave this discussion in the capable hands of you Good People. So many other, interestesting threads, you know ... !
2takesfrakes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 08:21 PM   #34
TheSubCommander
Captain
 
TheSubCommander's Avatar
 
Re: Pegasus and TATV

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
I don't know, maybe that idea sucks, but to me, it makes more sense than re-treading Pegasus, which I thought was a pretty forgettable episode.
I thought "Pegasus" had a good solid theme, i.e. how long do you follow orders that are probably illegal and when is the moment to break these? Admittedly, the conclusion wasn't the best of possible choices (Riker introducing Picard to an alternative when it seemed there wasn't one), but for me it was still entertaining to see Riker's reactions to Pressman first and understanding these watching the episode a second time.



I think it was one of better episodes of TNG's Season Seven (although there may have not been that many better episodes in this particular season ).

Bob

Eh, the big problem I have with that episode is when it takes place. This episode, to me, had Riker acting a little out of character. Had it been season 1,2, or even 3, when Riker is still less seasoned as a first officer on the Enterprise, maybe it would have worked a lot better for me. But by season 7, Riker practically should be operating as almost a co-captain by that point (He had been captain during BOBW, and acting as one during other emergencies). I find it hard to believe he has trouble deciding on whether he should remain loyal to Pressman or go to Picard and do the right thing. Sure he ultimately made the right choice, but he sure had to deliberate on that, and was reprimanded in the process. Then, TATV further muddies that up with the holodeck bit.

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Why did the conflict need to be focused on Riker? If there was something unresolved from Nemesis, it was the mental rape of Troi. It might have made more sense to draw comparisons to TPol and Trip's problems, and might have had more emotional impact.
That is not a bad idea, either.

Last edited by TheSubCommander; June 10 2014 at 08:33 PM.
TheSubCommander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 09:41 PM   #35
Silvercrest
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Pegasus and TATV

This might be overkill, but if you want a sendoff to the entire franchise —
Riker is on a holodeck. Whether it's aboard the Titan or someplace else is irrelevant. He's putting together a historical re-enactment of some event from Archer's Enterprise. We see a scene or two from his treatment (featuring the Enterprise cast), but he knows he's not getting the details right. He puts in a call to some history buffs he knows: Lt. Tom Paris and Dr. Julian Bashir. If possible, a special appearance by a very old TOS cast member, preferably Sulu or Uhura. We see each of their versions of the event, different each time and none of them quite right.

In the last act of the show, they are interrupted by someone who was called in as an authority on the subject: An extremely old T'Pol, saying, "This is what really happened." You get to see one more version of the scene, but this time you know it's the real characters and events you're watching. Cut to the montage of the various Enterprises. The End.

Any opinions?
Silvercrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 09:57 PM   #36
jespah
Commodore
 
jespah's Avatar
 
Location: Boston, the Gateway to the Galaxy
View jespah's Twitter Profile
Re: Pegasus and TATV

Ah, Star Trek: Rashomon.
__________________
Oh, Stewardess! I speak Jive!
http://www.jespah.com (fanfic with all ratings). TU Publishing
Adult Trek Anthology 2
jespah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 10:39 PM   #37
TheSubCommander
Captain
 
TheSubCommander's Avatar
 
Re: Pegasus and TATV

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
This might be overkill, but if you want a sendoff to the entire franchise —
Riker is on a holodeck. Whether it's aboard the Titan or someplace else is irrelevant. He's putting together a historical re-enactment of some event from Archer's Enterprise. We see a scene or two from his treatment (featuring the Enterprise cast), but he knows he's not getting the details right. He puts in a call to some history buffs he knows: Lt. Tom Paris and Dr. Julian Bashir. If possible, a special appearance by a very old TOS cast member, preferably Sulu or Uhura. We see each of their versions of the event, different each time and none of them quite right.

In the last act of the show, they are interrupted by someone who was called in as an authority on the subject: An extremely old T'Pol, saying, "This is what really happened." You get to see one more version of the scene, but this time you know it's the real characters and events you're watching. Cut to the montage of the various Enterprises. The End.

Any opinions?

Sounds a little like the season 4 finale of Babylon 5. I think it would have been nice to do something like that.
TheSubCommander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2014, 11:00 PM   #38
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Pegasus and TATV

Did people actually care about the title being left out of the first two seasons? I didn't. I might not have even noticed

I mean.. Enterprise. Clearly this is Star Trek.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2014, 10:16 AM   #39
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Pegasus and TATV

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
I find it hard to believe he has trouble deciding on whether he should remain loyal to Pressman or go to Picard and do the right thing. Sure he ultimately made the right choice, but he sure had to deliberate on that, and was reprimanded in the process. Then, TATV further muddies that up with the holodeck bit.
I see your point. Indeed, by TNG Season Seven one could have expected Riker to have it within himself to make the right decision. I always thought this was a graphic illustration / explanation that maybe he wasn't yet fully ready for the big chair. But Riker in need of some kind of history lesson was so out of character, that this can't possibly be taken seriously (add to this that he never came clean in any way TATV suggested he would ).

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2014, 11:19 AM   #40
Mario de Monti
Captain
 
Mario de Monti's Avatar
 
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Pegasus and TATV

teacake wrote: View Post
Did people actually care about the title being left out of the first two seasons? I didn't. I might not have even noticed

I mean.. Enterprise. Clearly this is Star Trek.
Definitely. I actually liked that it was just Enterprise and it seemded as if TPTB somehow gave in to public / fan demand for the third season and added the Star Trek to the title. That and the stupid jazzing-up of the main title song are two things I still can´t get by.
__________________
"Do you give me attitude, Spock?" - "I´m expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, Sir. To which are you referring?"
Mario de Monti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13 2014, 03:14 PM   #41
BMariner
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Pegasus and TATV

I'm only starting S3 on a first-time watch of the whole series, but since this forum is absolutely dominated by TATV talk, I skipped ahead last night to watch that episode. I almost wish I hadn't. Beyond the issues I have with ENT and its characters being totally upstaged by TNG in its own series finale (this probably would have worked as a mid-season ep) and the massive bags under Riker's eyes, the cameos are made by my two least favorite TNG characters.

I never thought Riker fit into TNG's ensemble. Seems like he existed almost solely to yell "Red Alert!" on the bridge and to stand sideways while defiantly saying "Yes SIR!" when he disagreed with a superior. I can't think of a more purposeless member of that crew. And I was ok with Troi, but I hate when writers develop a character by inexplicably expanding their skillset (Troi flying the ship, making command decisions, having any role at all on the First Contact away team, etc.). I'm not generally a fan of developing secondary characters at all. I prefer the TOS model: less is more when it comes to secondary characters. I don't need Troi in command. I don't need Neelix doing security. I don't need to see the EMH playing dad in a holo-family.

But yeah, TATV sucked.
BMariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 05:38 AM   #42
Avro Arrow
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Pegasus and TATV

BMariner wrote: View Post
I'm only starting S3 on a first-time watch of the whole series, but since this forum is absolutely dominated by TATV talk, I skipped ahead last night to watch that episode. I almost wish I hadn't.
Look at the bright side... you have almost two whole good seasons to go to wash the taste of TATV out of your mouth. Just remember not to watch it again when you get to the last disc of S4!
__________________
"A mind that cannot change is a door that cannot open: both are useless."
- Keith R. A. DeCandido, The Klingon Art of War
Avro Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 07:09 AM   #43
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Pegasus and TATV

BMariner wrote: View Post
least favorite TNG characters
I can't think of a more purposeless member of that crew.
Oh YOU are my friend!

And when you finish season 4 just look on the double ep that precedes TATV as the finale. It's a very nice way to finish the series and even (who was it?) a very important person said they were the true finale.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne

Last edited by teacake; June 14 2014 at 11:56 AM.
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2014, 10:54 AM   #44
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Pegasus and TATV

I wonder if Riker watching the "real" Kobayashi Maru scenario play out on the holodeck prior to some suicide mission might have worked better. Even if it resulted in the heroic death of the Enterprise and crew.

(you know an episode is bad when I'm thinking a continuity porn episode where everybody dies might have worked better)
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2014, 04:53 AM   #45
od0_ital
Admiral
 
od0_ital's Avatar
 
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Send a message via Yahoo to od0_ital
Re: Pegasus and TATV

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
od0_ital wrote: View Post
^

'Frame of Mind' had enough holobullcrap goin' on, too.

Maybe instead of tryin' to tie ENT in with TNG, they should have just written a proper finale for the series. If they had to have Jonathan Frakes & Marina Sirties, why not let 'em play new characters in the 22nd century?
Frame of Mind was not a holodeck episode, per se. Holographic technology was used to mess with Riker. On the other hand, the holodeck might finally be used as a therapeutic tool. (Which is not to say that the artifice bringing the two eras together would not still have problems, but that FoM leaves unresolved how Riker recovered.)
The holodeck was used as a therapeutic tool in TNG 'Schisms' (season six) and DS9 'Afterimage' (season seven).
__________________
od0's bucket od0's facebook
od0_ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.