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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 11 2014, 12:05 AM   #31
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

urbandefault wrote: View Post
LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
urbandefault wrote: View Post
Oh, I believe that...it's just that now I have to figure out which memories are real, and which have been implanted by an unknown entity.
I know how you feel. I sometimes have vivid memories of watching a tv show in a specific place where I used to live, only to find out that the show wasn't on until much later.

Getting old sucks.
But it's better than the alternative...
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Old June 11 2014, 12:25 AM   #32
2takesfrakes
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

I wonder if William Shatner did anything to commemorate the event? Invited all of his surviving TREK stars over for a shindig, perhaps ...
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Old June 11 2014, 12:35 AM   #33
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

The bridge in TFF looked a little too TNG influenced to me. The reworking on TUC is IMO the best bridge of the TOS films.
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Old June 11 2014, 01:05 AM   #34
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

YES!!! Everybody loves "Z," but outside of the ENTERPRISE-D (model design AND interiors, especially) I really cannot stand - almost hate, actually - Zimmerman's design sense. And Okuda's LCARS and whatnot ... really overdone, later on.
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Old June 11 2014, 01:16 AM   #35
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

How terrible for you.
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Old June 11 2014, 05:01 PM   #36
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

I don't see how anyone can call this the worst Trek movie ever considering the awfulness of Insurrection and Nemesis.
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Old June 11 2014, 05:44 PM   #37
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

I think there’s some really critical stuff (some deserved, some not) thrown at Star Trek V. I think what often gets lost is that it is (to me) a very ENTERTAINING film, but also a very poorly made film. And that’s where people get tripped up I think

I put Star Trek V in the upper half of the movie franchise. It’s light-years better than Insurrection, Generations and Nemesis. I also put it slightly ahead of “fan classics” like The Undiscovered Country and The Voyage Home as well. Admittedly, some of that is nostalgia. I saw The Final Frontier at the height of my Trek fandom on opening night with my dad at 13 years old. It’s a great memory for me. I had anticipated the film greatly. Shatner (the MAN himself) had directed and co-wrote the film. The trailers looked very interesting. The plot would contain adventure and action and a perilous journey of discovery. We were out of the “Khan Trilogy” and back to “the mission” of the Enterprise. Yes, I was extremely excited and I loved the film when I saw it that night. I remember being confused by all the negative reviews and the negative fan letters to magazines like Starlog. It seemed like I had missed something. That said, I saw the movie again that summer (a GREAT summer for blockbusters) and loved it when it came on home video in December as well…

The bottom line is that the movie is extremely flawed, both from a story structure standpoint AND from a production standpoint. But, what it does RIGHT it does better than any of the other Trek films.

WRONG:

1. The visual FX are horrendous. I mean, really REALLY poor. Ferren & Associates had no idea how to do motion control work with models. The Enterprise and BoP honestly look like cardboard cut-outs at times, with no depth or scale. They are lit in a very static and “fake looking” manner as well, completely nullifying the beautiful paint job on the Enterprise model. The Great Barrier is intriguing, but looked better as an ominous and slightly out-of-focus glow out the window than what was shown up close. The worst shots in the movie were both of the Enterprise…one is the “orbiting Nimbus” shot where the ship just kind of slowly pivots unnaturally with no planet visible (I mean, even TOS had frequent shots of the Enterprise and a planet). The other is the terrible shot of the ship warpping out of orbit to escape the Klingons.
2. Aspects of the script were very sloppy. Although I’m not going to jump up and down like a rabid chimp about it…there are things that were just a mess. The inclusion of the Klingons could have been handled better. They come off as being shoe-horned in to create a sense of menace. If they were given a better motivation than just “let’s kill Kirk because he sucks,” it would have been an improvement. The gimmick of the Enterprise being in a state of ill-repair is embarrassing. That works well for the Millennium Falcon, but not the Enterprise. To have the ship essentially be a disaster area with a skeleton crew was a lazy way to make it more believable that Sybok could take control of the ship. Also, the story took too long to get going. Although the vacation scenes are good (see below), some of this could have been cut down and story elements added in later to provide more back-story to Sybok, more explanation regarding the creature at the end, and more discussion around the Great Barrier and the journey itself.

3. The concept of “God / Eden at the Center of the Galaxy” is too much of a stretch- and too ambitious to pay off. I actually believe that Sha Ka Ree is a place where, should the “worthy” pass the barrier, an audience with a supreme being can be obtained (a manifestation or whatever) as opposed to this being the actual residence of said supreme being.

4. The “humor” is hit-or-miss. We all know the studio forced humor into the dialogue because they hoped to re-create the success of The Voyage Home, but that script lended itself to humor because of the “fish out of water” situation. Here, the film does some of that, but mostly it stoops to parody, and that’s painful to watch at times. They would have been well-served to have fun with the vacation scenes, but the moment that shuttle lands in the hanger bay, we’re into “serious” mode and off on our adventure. Instead, they pushed it a little far with some of the slapstick stuff, and the movie really suffers as a result.

RIGHT:

1. As many have mentioned, the exploration and expansion of the character arcs is very good. In particular, the exploration of the “BIG THREE.” The camping scene is intimate and charming, and allows us to see these men as people, not just heroes. It was well-done, despite some bad singing. Both observation room scenes (Spock’s discussion about Sybok and the confrontation / “share your pain” sequence) are outstanding. Kelley’s scene in particular is one of the best in the film franchise, and Kirk’s reaction to having these things revealed about his closest friends right in front of him (and of course, the classic “I need my pain”) is very dramatic and very critical to knowing those characters at this point in their lives. It seems like everyone else in the ensemble gets their moment, and that’s fun to see as well.

2. The story is about a journey of discovery, which is an element missing from many of the Trek films. Only TMP and TSFS come close to the feel that we are investigating new ground in some way. The feelings of awe and inspiration as the Enterprise approaches the Barrier are genuine…and that’s the feeling I watch Star Trek for.

3. Also mentioned previously is that the movie is fun. It’s an Indiana Jones style adventure quest that I personally think the Star Trek films should have done more of. There is some humor and light-heartedness that works (and others that do not, see above). There’s some dynamic direction (yes, I said it) that was missing from the previous 4 films which had more of a static style. There’s charm and wit to some of the dialogue, particularly between The Big Three.

4. Sybok is a compelling character played by a good actor. The idea of a renegade Vulcan (who happens to be Spock’s elder half-brother) was shat-upon by fans…but I think it’s a great addition to Trek lore. I’m not sure why fans think that we (or Kirk) should know everything about Spock at this point. Spock has demonstrated time and again an intense sense of privacy about his race and his family. The idea of Pon Far was foreign to Kirk and McCoy and had to be DRAGGED out of Spock (Amok Time). His betrothal was also unknown at the time of that episode. Further, Spock’s relation to Ambassador Sarek was kept secret until it became absolutely necessary (Journey to Babel). Spock isn’t in the business of revealing details of his race or family. It’s true to character! The scene in the observation lounge where he dances around “The exceptionally gifted young student” who the image reminds him of is dead-on character for Spock. Luckinbill does a nice job portraying the charismatic but delusional obsessive who is well-intended but misguided. Sybok’s end is tragic. Also, I didn’t blow a gasket about Kirk’s unknown son, so Spock’s unknown brother must also get a pass.

5. Jerry Goldsmith’s score is fantastic…second only to the legendary work he did on TMP.

My biggest frustration with Star Trek V is that the script seemed to focus attention in the wrong areas at times. We have KSM saying “goodnight.” We have tons of exposition and establishing dialogue regarding the Planet of Galactic Peace concept and the three ambassadors (none of which was relevant to the story as it progressed). We have Scott and Uhura flirting. We have a bunch of stuff on screen that is not germane to the story being told. What the writers SHOULD have done is get rid of that stuff and focus more on these elements

Expansion of Sybok’s character and backstory. Go more into his faith. WHY does he believe what he so passionately feels (both about emotion and about Sha Ka Ree)? Also, leverage this idea that he was one of Vulcan’s most gifted intellects! Did he create a new shielding technology to help them potentially get through the Great Barrier? Did he find a way to create an unstable wormhole (controlled anti-matter imbalance perhaps)?

Enrich the concepts of Sha Ka Ree and the Great Barrier. There should have been more backstory and explanation of these elements. The Great Barrier was set up as a major milestone in potential human achievement. What is the history there? This should be considered a significant expedition. What do others believe lies beyond (the impression is given that there are many theories…not just Sha Ka Ree). Additionally, as mentioned earlier, what is the story around Sha Ka Ree? Is this really considered an “Eden” or creation point? Or, is it more of a mythological place where intelligent beings can supposedly directly commune with the superior being if they are enlightened enough to get beyond the Great Barrier? These could have been some compelling sci-fi concepts (breaching the Barrier being akin to discovering Warp Speed or discovering the world is round is a cool though…let’s dig in on that!!!).

Explain the Motivations of the Entity. I’m not advocating they spell it out word-for-word…but it would have been cool to learn a bit about what the origins and motivations of this entity were. Why is it there? It states that it’s been “imprisoned” which is fascinating! By whom? For what? And what kind of havoc / evil could this thing spread if it were to “join” with the Enterprise and get back into the populated galaxy?

You could have excised 10 minutes of foolishness from the script and inserted a small scene on each of these elements, and you may have had one of the BEST Star Trek films (although the production issues would still exist). So, it’s frustrating to think about what COULD have been if a little more care had been applied to the writing process.

The 25th Anniversary has been a great opportunity to reflect on this movie, which is one of the more hotly debated / controversial films in the series. It’s been fun expressing some of the thoughts that have come as a result of that reflection.
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Old June 12 2014, 01:03 AM   #38
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

I loved it when Spock was on Nimbus III, affecting the rescue of the diplomats with Kirk and company. Bad guys with Pebble Shooters are holding their own against our fully armed Away Team. Spock approaches one of Sybok's henchman on horseback and proceeds to give the horse a nerve pinch. The ball-slapping nag whinnies as he's brought to his wobbly knees and the guy riding him just dismounts and mosies along, out of harms way, free to commit more mischief ...
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Old June 12 2014, 12:44 PM   #39
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I loved it when Spock was on Nimbus III, affecting the rescue of the diplomats with Kirk and company. Bad guys with Pebble Shooters are holding their own against our fully armed Away Team. Spock approaches one of Sybok's henchman on horseback and proceeds to give the horse a nerve pinch. The ball-slapping nag whinnies as he's brought to his wobbly knees and the guy riding him just dismounts and mosies along, out of harms way, free to commit more mischief ...
Yes, admittedly, that goes under the WTF category.
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Old June 12 2014, 03:22 PM   #40
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

^^^ surely not. Here we see Spock neckpinching a blue unicorn -- and you worry about the little punk? how much awesome does it take with you?
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Old June 12 2014, 04:14 PM   #41
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

The Final Frontier is still easily my second-favorite of the original cast movies. Shatner's direction is superb, Andy Laszlo's cinematography is great, I love Goldsmith's score and Laurence Luckinbill was an absolutely brilliant casting choice. It's got warts, but I can look past them ... at least Shatner knew how to move a camera, unlike Nimoy.
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Old June 12 2014, 04:14 PM   #42
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

johnjm22 wrote: View Post
I don't see how anyone can call this the worst Trek movie ever considering the awfulness of Insurrection and Nemesis.
I often find that folks lump the three films together at the bottom, but I don't think there's a consensus on which one is THE worst. I personally put TFF at the last place because it's just too embarrassing to see the TOS crew be in such a turkey.
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Old June 12 2014, 07:56 PM   #43
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Timby wrote: View Post
Shatner's direction is superb ...


... >>SNORT!!!<<
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Old June 12 2014, 08:24 PM   #44
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

Amazing how "far" the world has come in 25 years. Imagine if Shats original ideas for this movie were allowed to go forward, you'd have the orbital skydive and the attack of the rock monsters which would have been interesting but he wanted Kirk to find God. Not an alien, not some guy faking it, actually portray on screen The One True God, who I bet would have looked a lot like the final version the alien chooses to appear like anyway. Can you imagine how that would go over today? Shatner would have a fatwa on his head, assuming you could ever release the thing outside North America.
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Old June 12 2014, 08:39 PM   #45
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Re: its Star Trek Vs 25th anniversary!

^
a Shatwa

Noah did ok though and that was all about Rock monsters, god etc.
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