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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate One Constant Star.
Outstanding 11 25.58%
Above Average 13 30.23%
Average 14 32.56%
Below Average 1 2.33%
Poor 4 9.30%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 10 2014, 04:01 AM   #91
Thrawn
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

^ One of my favorite things about Serpents was how DRG3 took that scene, and presented its opposite as Harriman's biggest strength. That scene was all about Harriman being caught unprepared and flying by the seat of his pants - not his strong suit. Serpents is about a months-long plan slowly, painstakingly, coming to fruition. Harriman is at his best with long-term thinking. 'Twas beautiful.
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Old June 10 2014, 12:05 PM   #92
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

And to have made that occur due to an ambitious father putting his son into an unprepared situation struck true as well. More so, I loved how DRG dealt with Peter David's earlier work in Serpents by depicting Blackjack's rejection of Harriman even through his own slow death.
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Old June 10 2014, 07:54 PM   #93
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Thrawn wrote: View Post
Ok.

Honestly - I'm mostly just sad at how much you're missing out on an incredible story.

And to anyone else not quite so closed-minded reading this exchange: allow me to assure you, this is just a difference of opinion. kirk55555 literally does not understand the story in any way shape or form. Don't let his description turn you away from it. No one who read the book would think any of that bullshit.
Except the fact where I read the entire summary of the story, and got fairly in-depth details I mean, I haven't read the book so my opinion obviously shouldn't be taken as a review of the story. My opinion is that I would hate the book. This is not a blurb I'm basing my opinion off of, its detailed summaries of the events and motivations for the events of the book. I haven't said anything that was bullshit, it can all be backed up just by the summaries. I did make a few conclusions about Harriman's motivation (maybe he honestly didn't see his choice of romulan ship/captain for his plan as revenge, although we can argue whether it was or not) but the events happened as I said, unless Memory beta has been severely screwed with. Its fine if you don't agree with me, but I've got a pretty good grasp on the basics of the situation. Whatever stupid characterization harriman might have been given doesn't matter.

As for it being an "incredible story", that's your opinion. Everyone likes different things. I prefer starfleet officers that don't commit fake (or real) atrocities, at least not without an actual, definitive end of the federation level situation.
Read the book, then judge. You can't judge a book from an recap on Memory Beta, get any of the characters deepest motivations. If you honoustly believe you understand a novel simply by reading Memory Beta.... I mean, I got nothing. Seriously, nothing. That is beyond reason.
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Old June 10 2014, 08:19 PM   #94
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
As for it being an "incredible story", that's your opinion. Everyone likes different things. I prefer starfleet officers that don't commit fake (or real) atrocities, at least not without an actual, definitive end of the federation level situation.
But that's the thing, in the book it is a potential end-level situation, or one so costly (i.e. in the billions) that the Federation could not survive a war with the Romulans, nor the Romulans with the Federation. To subvert hawks on both sides, and to sidestep a declining relationship with the Klingons which means that the Federation cannot count on its allies' aid in a war situation, Harriman plans a longterm op which should have 0 casualties (in the end it has 4). He is friends with Romulans, and it is an act designed to prevent the war that is established as impending and mutually destructive, and which Federation and Romulan fanatics seek believing they would, somehow, triumph. Rather than being a tale about an 'idiot' or some kind of monstrosity on Starfleet's part, it's a tale about having to overcome bloodlust and jingoism and seeking peace. The negative result, the introversion of the Romulans, isn't the goal either - instead it is ensuring that pacifism comes out on top.

Kirk55555, why don't you check out the text on Google Books - you can read some of the preview and get a sense of the book.
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Old June 10 2014, 09:46 PM   #95
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I didn't want to get into a big argument about it. Its just a book i think sounds horrible, about a event that shouldn't have happened, orchestrated by a character that should never have had a career in Starfleet at that point, or at least not one where he was in charge of aything. Its fine for people to like it. Personally, unless it gets mentioned specifically in one of the current TNG/DS9 books set in the current novel relaunch continuity, I just count this as one of the stupider ST books that tells a story that, when it comes to stories I consider canon in my head, never happened. Feel free to enjoy it, its just somthing I really dislike.
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Old June 10 2014, 10:57 PM   #96
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

People: he has now three times made character judgments based on a summary that we have told him is misleading and woefully incomplete, but which he still says is complete and detailed anyway, based on nothing but his own stubbornness. Clearly: we're not going to win this one.

I think it's time to let this argument die.

EDIT: Though I did just realize - this book actually is mentioned in the wider continuity, events in the book are featured quite seriously in DS9: Mission Gamma: Twilight.
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Old June 10 2014, 11:08 PM   #97
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Thrawn wrote: View Post
People: he has now three times made character judgments based on a summary that we have told him is misleading and woefully incomplete, but which he still says is complete and detailed anyway, based on nothing but his own stubbornness. Clearly: we're not going to win this one.

I think it's time to let this argument die.

EDIT: Though I did just realize - this book actually is mentioned in the wider continuity, events in the book are featured quite seriously in DS9: Mission Gamma: Twilight.
And Gell Kamemor, who was introduced in Serpents, is now the Praetor of the Romulan Star Empire.
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Old June 11 2014, 12:55 AM   #98
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I think the lesson in this is that someone has to go edit the Memory Beta article...
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Old June 11 2014, 01:21 AM   #99
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
[...] I just count this as one of the stupider ST books that tells a story that, when it comes to stories I consider canon in my head, never happened. Feel free to enjoy it, its just somthing I really dislike.
But, by your own admission, you've never even read it. Therefore, how does this novel even rank as "one of the stupider ST books"?
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Old June 11 2014, 01:40 AM   #100
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Masiral wrote: View Post
And Gell Kamemor, who was introduced in Serpents, is now the Praetor of the Romulan Star Empire.
Oh yeah, forgot about that. She's great, too.
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Old June 11 2014, 02:56 AM   #101
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Masiral wrote: View Post
Thrawn wrote: View Post
People: he has now three times made character judgments based on a summary that we have told him is misleading and woefully incomplete, but which he still says is complete and detailed anyway, based on nothing but his own stubbornness. Clearly: we're not going to win this one.

I think it's time to let this argument die.

EDIT: Though I did just realize - this book actually is mentioned in the wider continuity, events in the book are featured quite seriously in DS9: Mission Gamma: Twilight.
And Gell Kamemor, who was introduced in Serpents, is now the Praetor of the Romulan Star Empire.
Well, good characters can come from bad sources/stories. I like her, although hearing that she was connected to that stupid story makes it seem like we're very lucky that she turned out to be a decent character.

Plus, how can the events of Serpents feature in DS9: Mission Gamma: Twilight, when the DS9 book came out first? Amazon.com has Twilight listed as releasing in 2002, and Serpent's in 2003. I guess Serpent's could tell the story of something Twilight mentioned, but then that's just making me think that Twilight sucks, too.

Leto_II wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
[...] I just count this as one of the stupider ST books that tells a story that, when it comes to stories I consider canon in my head, never happened. Feel free to enjoy it, its just somthing I really dislike.
But, by your own admission, you've never even read it. Therefore, how does this novel even rank as "one of the stupider ST books"?
It's one of the stupidest ST books I've heard of. There probably are stupider ones, but this happens to be one that stands out with its stupidity to me. Not every ST book/story is going to be liked by everyone. To me, Serpents has a horrible premise and doesn't even seem like a book about a Star Fleet officer, it seems like a stupid Section 31 story. Some people like that, obviously. But to me it sounds awful, and so I'll happily never read the book about the idiot Captain becoming a paranoid intelligence officer. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if I should read any DRG III books. I liked his Typhoon Pact and The Fall DS9 books, and I thought One Constant Star was decent, but after all of these posts I'm seriously questioning his writing ability. I definitely won't even consider reading any of his pre-Typhoon Pact books, but I guess I'll remain open to reading his stuff if he does another DS9 book.
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Old June 11 2014, 05:24 AM   #102
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

So after reading a few of his books and enjoying them, you've now decided to "seriously question his writing ability" thanks to testimonials by other readers about how good another one of his books is, one that you haven't read?

The mind boggles, my friend.
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Old June 11 2014, 11:45 AM   #103
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Diverting the topic towards One Constant Star...

It was a slow start but I kept on it for the final 40%, finishing it in two sittings. It's a strong book, almost great - except for the open questions. Good thing we have a thread to seek their answers!

1) I gather the arachnoids weren't the Rejarrians, or their descendants? So, what happened to them? Did the portal bring them somewhere else and had reset to a different location by the time Excelsior arrived?

2) If the stars and location were completely unknown, how could Harriman find Odyssey in the unknown starscape?

3) Where there any other civilizations in "Demora's universe" (named by Harriman)? Did Enterprise just fly straight to Odyssey without meeting anybody? Also, did they explore that universe while they were there, like leaving behind probes along the way?


Back to praising the book: It was truly thrilling when the lives of the characters hung (or is it hang?) in the balance. I knew Harriman would live and kept thinking how Chakotay met an Admiral Sulu, but at any point before Enterprise arrived in Demora's universe, the lives of Captains Sulu were threatened. I wondered, could this be the novel were Hikaru Sulu, TOS main character, dies? He didn't have to to make the novel worthwhile but I love those moments when it feels like anything could happen.

We knew that Enterprise wouldn't be lost in 2319 because Garrett ponders the 1701-B's loss in 2328 in Well of Souls (or was it in The Art of the Impossible?)

Concerning the registry of starships: I'm surprised by Christopher's info that nostalgic registry numbers are impractical. I hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe it is impractical to us Humans but is a (common) alien influence on Starfleet? We know Klingons, Andorians and Ferengi also use registry numbers (from CCG and The Tears of Eridanus). Moreover, we got USS Relativity NCV-474439-G from canon, and (weirdly) USS Nash NCC-2010-5. Reusing registry numbers would explain some unusual numbers, like USS Constellation's NCC-1017, which precedes Constitution's NCC-1700 - maybe there was an earlier NCC-1017 and the registry just got reused?

Btw, in a timeline where the Borg weren't wiped out in 2381 (namely, the STO timeline), we have a ship in service in 2409 called USS Excelsior NCC-2000-D.

This book is also a treasure trove for Memory Beta. There are numerous ship names and registries given, including shuttlecraft (even three with registry number!), and we get references to the Larson-class, as well as two named shuttlecraft types, Class H and Gagarin-class!

Before I get to technical, the character work was superb. I liked all the characters and their interactions, regardless of whether they were from canon or litverse only. A good example is Linojj's reminiscing about her past, which effortlessly teaches us more about Boslic history and her character, all in one go!
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Old June 11 2014, 02:07 PM   #104
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

What happened to the Rejarrians remained unsettled. I think that the Rejarrians and the arachnoids had different biologies.

Regarding the star Odyssey, Demora Sulu would have known where the star was in relation to her last location in her native universe--its direction, its distance. She would have been able to apply the same factors in relation to the world in her new universe.
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Old June 11 2014, 02:28 PM   #105
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Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Regarding the star Odyssey, Demora Sulu would have known where the star was in relation to her last location in her native universe--its direction, its distance. She would have been able to apply the same factors in relation to the world in her new universe.
But Sulu's planet was totally different from Rejarris II, as was the system from the Rejarris system. None of the visible stars matched any other stars. Even if Odyssey is the one constant star in the multiverse, how could you find it if you don't even know whether Sulu's planet and Rejarris II occupy the same spatial location?

I can't make head or tails of it. So the various universes share the same physical laws (suns, planets, etc.), but all the stars are different in each universe? It could only make sense to me if the portal was not interdimensional but intergalactic, that also applying to Odyssey. Different galaxies would explain the similarities between the "universes" and the different star patterns.

Also, if interdimensional identification is bassed on stellar cartography, the Enterprise crew is lucky they didn't end up in any of the mirror universes, or any other similar universes to the left and right of ours.
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