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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 9 2014, 07:14 PM   #226
Captrek
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Timo wrote: View Post
But once again, there's no sense in him giving Kirk Khan's crew, when what he wants is the Klingon war. So any excuse for him accidentally giving Kirk Khan's crew is preferable to him doing it deliberately. Otherwise we have an idiot plot, even when we are supposed to be dealing with supersmart criminals.
We're talking about a conspiracy theorist (Orci). Their imagined conspiracies don't even make sense when they think they're talking about real life, so why would you expect them to make any more sense when imagining a conspiracy for a movie?

You can try to rescue the writing with fanwanks, but you really have to stretch a lot.

As for me, I simply accept that while STID has many good qualities, the screenplay isn't one of them. I enjoy it for what it is: an enjoyable ride for a couple of hours, not a movie that holds up very well on reflection.
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Old June 9 2014, 07:44 PM   #227
Set Harth
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Timo wrote: View Post
But once again, there's no sense in him giving Kirk Khan's crew, when what he wants is the Klingon war.
Khan disagrees with you. Why would he think Marcus killed his crew if the idea of Marcus killing Khan's crew is so implausible? Obviously the Klingon war does not depend on Khan's crew being alive.

Timo wrote: View Post
So any excuse for him accidentally giving Kirk Khan's crew is preferable to him doing it deliberately.
At least you know it's an excuse.

Timo wrote: View Post
Otherwise we have an idiot plot, even when we are supposed to be dealing with supersmart criminals.
You're the one making Marcus out to be an idiot who gives torpedoes to Kirk without knowing what's in them.

Timo wrote: View Post
No, he doesn't. The number "72" only pops up when Khan specifically asks Kirk.
The information can be conveyed without using that number.

Timo wrote: View Post
Marcus thought Khan was working for him, on pain of his crew getting killed. But then Marcus found out Khan had stolen the crew and hidden it, and thus was in the process of betraying Marcus. End of Khan's usefulness, beginning of Khan as a threat.
Khan explains that he thought Marcus killed his crew. Thus, the crew were discovered.

Timo wrote: View Post
So Khan fled
So far, so good...

Timo wrote: View Post
and started plan v 1.1, a plan that only makes sense if Khan still expects the crew-torps to be delivered to him
Scotty's dialogue adequately explains why Khan went to Kronos. Anything else is your own invention - and it's not especially noteworthy that such invention requires further assumptions.

Timo wrote: View Post
There are two villains who lie to Kirk, to each other, and to the audience. We cannot believe what they say
Who's "we"? You may not believe what they say, yet you lack the ability to prove their statements false. Villains are as capable of telling the truth as anyone else.
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Old June 10 2014, 10:01 AM   #228
Belz...
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Re: "...all 72 torpedoes are still in their tubes."

Timo wrote: View Post
Otherwise we have an idiot plot, even when we are supposed to be dealing with supersmart criminals.
It's often the case with writers who try to pass off their characters, especially villains, as super-smart, that they simply mangle the logic of the movie, partly or wholly, instead. It doesn't necessarily make the movies bad, but it's a bit obnoxious. Examples include The Dark Knight, Skyfall, Star Trek Into Darkness.
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