RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,376
Posts: 5,504,499
Members: 25,125
Currently online: 552
Newest member: Ted Dave

TrekToday headlines

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 6 2014, 05:49 PM   #31
Professor Zoom
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Zoom's Avatar
 
Location: Idealistic
Re: The Most controversial Question

Starkers wrote: View Post

Actually I think in some cases they would (I'm not just talking Who here I'm talking across the board in tv and film). It might be down to laziness, it might be down to sheer logistics (you can't audition 25,000 people for a role after all) it might be down to salary requirements, scheduling conflicts, personality conflicts, nepotism... a whole heap of reasons. Plus of course the best person might turn you down!
Really? I just find it hard to believe that a show runner who is eager to make the best show she or he can wouldn't try to find the best person possible. (To them anyway.)

Sure, sometimes first choices can't happen, but there are a TON of talented actors in the world.

I just cannot believe someone casting a lead in a show would go, "meh, why not?" The stakes are to high.

Do you have an example? Not one where you believe they went "meh," but one where we know the director or show runner did.

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post

If they were to say 'I only want to see women for the auditions', then they might end up casting the best female for the part, but one who might not be as good as a male who never got to audition. The reverse would apply, obviously.
Which has been happening, to be sure. Women haven't been able to audition at all for the role. They have been saying, "we will see only men."

I agree, I think they should keep an open mind. But, honestly, I don't see it as a problem if they said, "you know, next Doctor is going to be played by a woman."

Starkers wrote: View Post

That's the important bit, after all Avery Brooks didn't get the role of Sisko because he was the best black man auditioned, he got the role because he was the best man auditioned. You'd just have to be really cagey about the job spec. "We're looking for a man or a woman to play an older mentor figure, a wizard, someone with great wisom and gravitas but who is also quirky and can be childish sometimes. Age and ethnicity imaterial."

Of course it might be pretty obvious who they're looking for...
That's not how casting calls work. They would just say it. It would be, THE DOCTOR, older mentor figure, a wizard, someone with great wisom and gravitas but who is also quirky and can be childish sometimes. All gender, age and ethnicities.

The all ethnicities is what they say in a lot of casting calls, unless they are specifically looking for a specific ethnicity or age, then they'll say, black, white, latino, etc.

Of course, for a role like Doctor Who, they aren't going to see 10,000 people, literally looking for the best person. They are going to put out feelers and they are going to crete a short list and see those people. For a role that prominent.

I would love for them to have an open mind. And if they decide they are going with a woman, or an actor of color, before they choose the actor, I don't think they need to justify it.

They don't have to justify why this being who can change their looks always chooses to be a white guy. Why should they if it's a woman? Or an actor of color?

I kinda hope they choose a woman of color, the internets would explode.
__________________
Batman does not eat nachos.
Professor Zoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2014, 08:43 PM   #32
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: The Most controversial Question

For a show like DW it is possible that they put out feelers to certain actors for not just the Doctor but for the Companions and main guest stars. They might even have actors or there agents putting out feelers to the show.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2014, 09:23 PM   #33
Doctorwhovian
Commander
 
Doctorwhovian's Avatar
 
Re: The Most controversial Question

Regarding the Romana thing, it seems clear in her second incarnation-at least in her debut season-that she's intended to be sort of a female Doctor (well at least the fourth one). In "Destiny" she briefly wears Tom's getup, and the pink outfit with white scarf she wears for the rest of that serial is pretty much the same idea.

I'm pretty sure she has her own sonic screwdriver as well.

I suppose they could bring her back with the time lords restored. The novels have her escape E-space but I'm not sure where the TV series should have the Doctor return there.
Doctorwhovian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2014, 09:53 PM   #34
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: The Most controversial Question

BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post
That got me to thinking: While the Doctor is a very "human" character who believes in doing the right thing and loving his alien neighbor, he can also be a despicable bastard as I've previously said. A female Doctor would have to be portrayed the same way - attention will have to be payed to the fact that we are still watching the same Gallifreyan who loves to be clever and impress his/her companions and hungers for the limelight. Not only that, but a character who has killed millions and can be a very cold and devious chess-master. Would feminist groups be upset at seeing a female Doctor portrayed that way and cry foul? Would they claim that the female Doctor is being painted as a narcissistic showoff at the least and a nasty unlikeable bitch at the worst, and that this harms the image of strong female characters?
You seem to spend a lot of time worrying about what feminists think.

I offer up Maleficent as an example. I just saw the new film and it surprised me at how the titular character is portrayed. The film tries to paint her as a morally ambiguous character with a lot of darkness around her and who is capable of awful evil acts. But at no point does she directly kill anyone in an act of deliberate murder. It's as if we as a society can't quite handle the idea of a female protagonist who is a good person and a cold blooded killer when it's often celebrated about many male protagonists, or if it's a ridiculous action schlock movie that should under no circumstances be taken seriously (see Resident Evil). In a perfect would, a hero who is also a killer should never be celebrated. The character of the Doctor certainly isn't intended to be celebrated for the sentient beings he has killed. But since he is a male, most fans don't demonize him. The show even goes out of its way to scold the Doctor on one occasion - Agatha Christie calls the Doctor out for being excited to solve a murder mystery as if it were a game, when real human beings were being killed. Would fans demonize a woman for doing the same things? Or would they see such a character as empowering for women? Because that would absolutely be the wrong message.
Why would the fans act any different because the character is a woman? You're whole argument is based around what you think other people will think.

Even there your logic confounds me, you claim:
(1) Society can't handle a female protagonist who is a good person and a cold blooded killer.
(2) Male protagonists are often celebrated as a good person and a cold blooded killer.
(3) In a perfect world, a hero who is a killer would not be celebrated
(4) The Doctor isn't intended to be celebrated as a killer
(5) Most fans don't demonize him because he is male

So going by these statements wouldn't a female Doctor be more likely to be demonized for being a cold blooded killer(1) and if she were demonized then that would be a good thing(3)(4), no?

If a female Doctor wasn't demonized than it would be no worse since males are often celebrated for being a cold blooded killer(2) and fans don't demonize the Doctor because he is male(5). In fact, if she wasn't demonized statements (1) and (5) are even more shaky.
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2014, 10:23 PM   #35
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: The Most controversial Question

Doctorwhovian wrote: View Post
Regarding the Romana thing, it seems clear in her second incarnation-at least in her debut season-that she's intended to be sort of a female Doctor (well at least the fourth one). In "Destiny" she briefly wears Tom's getup, and the pink outfit with white scarf she wears for the rest of that serial is pretty much the same idea.

I'm pretty sure she has her own sonic screwdriver as well.
Yes, in Horn of the Nimon, The Doctor hands her his Sonic Screwdriver, and she shows him she made her own. Then he tries to pocket Romana's and give her his, LOL.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2014, 10:44 PM   #36
BlastHardcheese
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: The Most controversial Question

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
You seem to spend a lot of time worrying about what feminists think.

So going by these statements wouldn't a...
I was only trying to raise points to stimulate discussion. I wasn't in the thread to play "who's the best at constructing and deconstructing logical arguments" game that you're playing. To me, that goes nowhere and it becomes a contest to see who is the most educated and skilled at debating. You seem to be arguing to "win" by deconstructing my meandering thoughts as if they were a horde of barbarians at the gate.

I make no pretense that my thoughts are a solid argument that should be accepted on its own merits. Hence why I phrase most of them in the form of questions. I'm sorry, you'll have to find your daily dopamine hit from picking apart someone else's statements.
BlastHardcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 02:16 AM   #37
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: The Most controversial Question

Well OK I guess you stimulated discussion. Congratulations?
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 07:09 AM   #38
BlastHardcheese
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: The Most controversial Question

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Well OK I guess you stimulated discussion. Congratulations?
Thanks, I guess I did. I know my own thoughts or observations aren't exactly logically consistent. How do you think leading women in fiction are expected to be by critics and the general public?
BlastHardcheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 07:45 AM   #39
Professor Zoom
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Zoom's Avatar
 
Location: Idealistic
Re: The Most controversial Question

BlastHardcheese wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Well OK I guess you stimulated discussion. Congratulations?
Thanks, I guess I did. I know my own thoughts or observations aren't exactly logically consistent. How do you think leading women in fiction are expected to be by critics and the general public?
Are you asking because you are trying to stimulate conversation again?
__________________
Batman does not eat nachos.
Professor Zoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 09:33 AM   #40
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: The Most controversial Question

starsuperion wrote: View Post
death nail
That's interesting, the term is death knell which refers to the ringing of a church bell to announce a death. But "nail" works well too in a final nail in the coffin kind of way.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 02:24 PM   #41
Green Lantern
Fleet Captain
 
Green Lantern's Avatar
 
Location: The bad of whoever pays for the night.
Re: The Most controversial Question

A camp doctor would probably work okay (Jon Pertwee dressed a little camply so the aesthetic of a camp doctor has already been proven to work) but I wouldn't recommend him showing off his sexuality as kids would probably be a little grossed out (remember young children do this kind of thing plus it would be PC for the sake of PC). But yeah a camp doctor, in fact I would be completely behind that, it would be funny if nothing else and add a great splash of humour to the series without having to resort to other methods of pointless humour like dinosaurs on spaceships.

I wouldn't see the point of a transgender doctor, you could argue if the doctor had a female incarnation then that would be transgender, but I am against the idea of a female doctor strongly because yet again it would be PC for the sake of PC, I couldn't envision it working, there would be endless jokes and it really would kill the show or at least cause another early regeneration. The majority if not all the people I have talked about this with in real life agree that a female doctor would be dreadful and it would be pointless to change a successful format. After all, there is a huge difference between changing the age of the actor playing the doctor and changing the gender of the doctor. It would be an unnecessary risk and it would be near impossible or even completely impossible to pull off right. I mean you remember the backlash from the younger fanbase about the doctor being older now, but just imagine a gender change. I don't want to sound ignorant or anything, but it just wouldn't work.
Green Lantern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 04:16 PM   #42
Professor Zoom
Vice Admiral
 
Professor Zoom's Avatar
 
Location: Idealistic
Re: The Most controversial Question

I don't recall any backlash regarding the older doctor. So either it wasn't all that big, or it passed quickly. Sounds inconsequential.
__________________
Batman does not eat nachos.
Professor Zoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 11:25 PM   #43
Green Lantern
Fleet Captain
 
Green Lantern's Avatar
 
Location: The bad of whoever pays for the night.
Re: The Most controversial Question

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
I don't recall any backlash regarding the older doctor. So either it wasn't all that big, or it passed quickly. Sounds inconsequential.
Probably both reasons, but I and others agree that Capaldi could have been better cast. Plus it's not just the fact he's older than most doctors, it's that he oldest have the "look" or the presence. If say John Hurt had been revealed to be the next doctor instead of the war doctor, I would have been quite happy as he played the part so well. So my issue with Capaldi isn't so much about as he's just the wrong person for the role in general.
Green Lantern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2014, 12:31 AM   #44
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: The Most controversial Question

How on earth can you say that he 'could have been better cast' when you have seen a 20 second clip of his Doctor in action and have no idea how this version of the character is to be portrayed?
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2014, 04:40 AM   #45
Doctorwhovian
Commander
 
Doctorwhovian's Avatar
 
Re: The Most controversial Question

Yeah, the regeneration isn't quite enough to judge an actor's portrayal. Also sometimes it takes a while for an actor to get the 'feel' of their Doctor. For instance in Spearhead From Space Pertwee was sort of imitating Troughton but eventually settled into the role by the end of the season. Peter Davison's portrayal of the Doctor in Four To Doomsday and [I]The Visitation[/I-which were filmed earlier-is somewhat different from how his Doctor acts in the rest of the season.

Matt Smith also started filming the Weeping Angels story before his 'debut' in Eleventh Hour.

Even actors well established in the role of the Doctor can alter their performance based on the producer or head writer. Tom Baker is the best example of this IMO, he started off fairly serious but when he came under a new producer the stories got increasingly camp (with the exception of his final season, which was almost too serious).


Another example is Sylvestor McCoy. Although his first season is very campy, that's toned down in his second (Although it's still a bit silly) however his final three stories, Ghost Light, Curse Of Fenric and Survival-seem to be heading in a darker direction and Mccoy's Doctor seems somewhat more distant, somber and manipulative.
Doctorwhovian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.