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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 30 2014, 11:23 PM   #31
M'Sharak
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Nebusj wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Dr. Helen Noel should be at least a Lt. Commander, but wears no rank insignia.
She should?

Pardon, but I don't remember any dialogue saying anything about her rank, just her medical credentials.
I don't recall any such dialogue, either, but a professional degree typically goes with a certain minimum rank. Many Trek characters with a doctoral title carried the rank of Lt. Commander, though fresh-out-of-medical-school Dr. Julian Bashir was a Lieutenant, so I'll amend my above statement to say that, at the minimum, Dr. Noel should have been wearing a sleeve stripe for that rank.
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Old May 30 2014, 11:23 PM   #32
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Nebusj wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Dr. Helen Noel should be at least a Lt. Commander, but wears no rank insignia.
She should?

Pardon, but I don't remember any dialogue saying anything about her rank, just her medical credentials.
It doesn't, but as a psychiatrist she should be at least Lt. Commander. A no rank sleeve was supposed to indicate crewman or ensign. Both unlikely for an MD like Noel.
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Old May 31 2014, 12:40 AM   #33
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

TMP and TWoK at least had rank insignia for non-coms as well as ensigns. TOS and NuTrek can't see the point. They think nobody will be paying attention to that sort of thing.

Noel was most likely a lieutenant. Science officers with doctorates tend to be lieutenants in TOS. More junior crew tend to be support staff like technicians, pilots, and admin staff.

Closest we've come to Chapel's rank is the old view that she was a Brevet (a provisional ensign a bit like Wesley) because she was not a full graduate of Starfleet and signed on the Enterprise in a hurry doing a job that was not actually her area of expertise. When she stayed on, at some point she became a full ensign and then a Lt in TAS. She was a Lt as a doctor in TMP and a full commander by STIV. My personal view is that she should have been allowed to become a biology expert rather than a second fiddle MD.
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Old May 31 2014, 01:13 AM   #34
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
TOS and NuTrek can't see the point. They think nobody will be paying attention to that sort of thing.
Or they know it won't ruin the experience for 99.9% of the audience.
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Old May 31 2014, 03:10 AM   #35
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
TMP and TWoK at least had rank insignia for non-coms as well as ensigns. TOS and NuTrek can't see the point. They think nobody will be paying attention to that sort of thing.
Star Trek in general has never bothered too much with enlisted rank insignia. Chief O'Brien wore Lieutenant's pips until S6 where he started wearing the single hollow pip he continued to wear until season 4 of DS9 where we saw an actual enlisted rank pin.

Enterprise did have enlisted rank pins in the first season, but they gradually disappeared over the course of the series.
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Old May 31 2014, 06:31 AM   #36
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

BillJ wrote: View Post
dammitjim6400 wrote: View Post
Okay..First of all, I think JJ Abrams Star Trek is a total travesty of sci fi and the Original series...
Please point on the gingerbread man below where J.J. Abrams touched you.

Cute.. But you're right JJ Abrams did hurt me with his silly version of Star Trek I had to rewatch TOS 3 times to get that mess outta my head.
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Old May 31 2014, 07:27 AM   #37
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

BigJake wrote: View Post
What does we want?
Better grammers!

When does we want it?
Now,
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Old May 31 2014, 07:58 AM   #38
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Please point on the gingerbread man below where J.J. Abrams touched you.

This isn't called for. Just because a person doesn't like nuTrek, it doesn't follow that he/she is claiming that "JJ Abrams raped my childhood" (or whatever that ridiculous phrase is).
If "I think JJ Abrams Star Trek is total travesty" is not a problem, then this shouldn't be, either.
The former is a legitimate opinion opinion, the latter is trolling.
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Old May 31 2014, 12:18 PM   #39
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post

The former is a legitimate opinion opinion, the latter is trolling.
I honestly don't care whether you think it is trolling or not.

There was a comment offered that the film was a "travesty". I took the comment in fun and offered a fun response that was in no way serious but appropriate. If the comment wasn't offered in fun then my post was still appropriate and should be a reality check for the original poster. Children going to bed hungry is a "travesty". Innocent people being gunned down in the streets is a "travesty". A two-hour movie that someone doesn't like doesn't remotely qualify.

There is a subset of fandom that need to have the sticks removed from their collective backsides in a major way.
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Old May 31 2014, 08:14 PM   #40
M'Sharak
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
This isn't called for. Just because a person doesn't like nuTrek, it doesn't follow that he/she is claiming that "JJ Abrams raped my childhood" (or whatever that ridiculous phrase is).
If "I think JJ Abrams Star Trek is total travesty" is not a problem, then this shouldn't be, either.
The former is a legitimate opinion opinion, the latter is trolling.
Whether or not the former constitutes "a legitimate opinion opinion" is itself a matter of opinion. It struck me as being too hyperbolic to be taken all that seriously, and to be almost inviting a jokey response.

Whether or not something is trolling, however, is not a question to be raised in-thread. That's against the rules. If you sincerely believe that a post (or portion thereof) is in violation of any rule or otherwise in need of moderator scrutiny, the thing for you to do is to make use of the Notify Moderator button on the post in question. (It looks like this: ) Do not make a call-out in the thread, as that may itself be deemed trolling.
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Old June 1 2014, 02:16 AM   #41
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post

The former is a legitimate opinion opinion, the latter is trolling.
There is a subset of fandom that need to have the sticks removed from their collective backsides in a major way.
I agree. However, it is my observation that fans of J.J. Abrams' work need to be more open to dissenting opinions rather than his critics, on this forum at least. I very frequently see his fans deriding those who dislike his work, vastly more often than I see his critics deriding his fans. It seems to me that J. J. Abrams' fans need to accept that some people don't like the the things that they like, and that an expression of a negative opinion on them is not an excuse to dismiss them. After all, we are here for an exchange of ideas, not for confrontation.
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Old June 1 2014, 02:52 AM   #42
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post

The former is a legitimate opinion opinion, the latter is trolling.
There is a subset of fandom that need to have the sticks removed from their collective backsides in a major way.
I agree. However, it is my observation that fans of J.J. Abrams' work need to be more open to dissenting opinions rather than his critics, on this forum at least. I very frequently see his fans deriding those who dislike his work, vastly more often than I see his critics deriding his fans. It seems to me that J. J. Abrams' fans need to accept that some people don't like the the things that they like, and that an expression of a negative opinion on them is not an excuse to dismiss them. After all, we are here for an exchange of ideas, not for confrontation.
No this forum has equal mix of passionately pro-Abrams and passionately anti-Abrams.
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Old June 1 2014, 03:24 AM   #43
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

You may be right. It may be that I notice the pro-Abrams crowd more often. In any case, there's nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas between opposing factions. So long as nobody takes it too seriously.
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Old June 1 2014, 04:41 AM   #44
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post

The former is a legitimate opinion opinion, the latter is trolling.
There is a subset of fandom that need to have the sticks removed from their collective backsides in a major way.
I agree. However, it is my observation that fans of J.J. Abrams' work need to be more open to dissenting opinions rather than his critics, on this forum at least.
The reason for the lack of "openness" is that a huge amount of the, as you call it, "dissenting opinion" for the newest Star Trek films is 1) unsolicited 2) repetitive 3) not particularly thoughtful.

I hate to use a political analogy, but it's sort of like the Benghazi hearings. It MIGHT have been a legitimate issue the first time, possibly even the second time. But eight congressional hearings and fifty four press releases later, it has become obvious that one political party is trying REALLY HARD to find something to be mad about, and they want everyone else to be mad about it too, and they become upset and even offended when others refrain from partaking of their outrage.

There are, of course, legitimate criticisms of STXI and STID. The pace of both movies was very rushed, and character development for Carol Marcus and Nero both suffered from choppy editing. Kirk's rise to command, while excusable for dramatic reasons, feels more than a little contrived in hindsight, and the "caught in Earth's gravity" scene qualifies as gratuitous and shameful abuse of the Rule of Cool. These are legitimate criticisms.

"It sucks because it violates teh canon!" is not really a legitimate criticism. It is, however, the basis of the majority of such criticisms, which is one of the reasons most of the fans continue to roll their eyes at the critics who make those kinds of statements.

After all, we are here for an exchange of ideas, not for confrontation.
I am here for an exchange of ideas, and probably so are you.

Quite a few members of this board, however, are here primarily for the confrontation.
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Old June 3 2014, 04:45 AM   #45
Lance
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Re: Why women dosen't display their Ranks ?

Campe98 wrote: View Post
Could someone PLEASE explain to me why the woman in JJ Abrams Trek movies don't display their ranks...
While I agree there are female uniforms in the reboot that do show this, on the shortsleeve version, where exactly would you put it without it looking silly?
Some kind of subtle epaulette motif would seem to be the obvious solution. Something atop the shoulders, either side of the neck.
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