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Old May 15 2014, 02:56 PM   #16
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The thing is, Peter Parker is such a neutral character, his skin color makes no difference.
Perhaps not to you, but for a young child of color lacking in pop culture role models and positives influences, it could make a big difference.

I'm not of the mind that movies should generally be made with some kind of social justice agenda--really!! --but if a black guy got cast as Peter Parker or something like that, I wouldn't really bat an eye and would rather consider it a positive step.
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Old May 15 2014, 03:09 PM   #17
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The thing is, Peter Parker is such a neutral character, his skin color makes no difference.
Perhaps not to you, but for a young child of color lacking in pop culture role models and positives influences, it could make a big different.
Just to be clear, I would have no problem at all with a black Spidey.

But when it's positive to have a black Spider-Man, is it detrimental when Spider-Man fights a black Electro? That's always my issue with the argument.
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Old May 15 2014, 03:47 PM   #18
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The thing is, Peter Parker is such a neutral character, his skin color makes no difference.
Perhaps not to you, but for a young child of color lacking in pop culture role models and positives influences, it could make a big different.
Just to be clear, I would have no problem at all with a black Spidey.

But when it's positive to have a black Spider-Man, is it detrimental when Spider-Man fights a black Electro? That's always my issue with the argument.
No, but obviously there's a big contextual difference between casting black people as heroes vs. casting them as villains. It's not novel to have black villains.
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Old May 15 2014, 04:34 PM   #19
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
This sort of reasoning is a catch-22. You don't see a lot of superhero/comic book movies featuring central characters as people of color, because they aren't popular in the comics, and they aren't popular in the comics because comics have long been a predominantly white medium, so no one reaches that level of popularity to justify making a film.
Aye, and it's additionally a case of studios and publishers not willing to take that chance. Thankfully, we have comics like the new Ms. Marvel that's doing pretty well critically and financially, and I really hope that that pans into more diversity in Marvel in general, but also into a budding franchise for Kamala Khan.

As Gail Simone once pointed out, audiences have always been diverse. Arts & entertainment? Not so much. Trying to make a minority part of the center tends to elicit accusations of tokenism and PC-ness, but good art & entertainment is inspired by reality, and reality has a lot more color than white male faces. One reason why Anthony Mackie chose to play the Falcon was so that kids in general would have a black action figure to play with, and that black kids in particular could have something that says, "Hey, that hero looks like me! I can be a hero, too."

Additionally, while I dislike the Fast & the Furious movies, one thing it has going for it is *plenty* of minority protagonists, and it rakes in the cash. It's kind of cynical to say that this all depends on money, but there is certainly appeal.
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Old May 15 2014, 06:08 PM   #20
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

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I would much rather see Miles as Spidey than just "making Peter black". What I really want to see though, is a Black Panther movie. C'mon already!
In agreement with you on the two points, even more so for the second.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Except for skin color, what would be the difference? Have black Peter Parker beat up racists just to make a point?
Not black Peter Parker, Miles Morales. That last detail makes all the difference.
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Old May 15 2014, 06:26 PM   #21
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Additionally, while I dislike the Fast & the Furious movies, one thing it has going for it is *plenty* of minority protagonists, and it rakes in the cash. It's kind of cynical to say that this all depends on money, but there is certainly appeal.
Action franchises are pretty high on the minorities in major roles, for some reason.

Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Matrix, Fast and Furious, Expendables, Beverly Hills Cop, 48 Hours, Bad Boys, Rush Hour,... all very successful.


Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Except for skin color, what would be the difference? Have black Peter Parker beat up racists just to make a point?
Not black Peter Parker, Miles Morales. That last detail makes all the difference.
Well that would be a different character, which then makes a point. Kinda what I was going at with a black Superman. It would affect his backstory and motivation.
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Old May 15 2014, 08:09 PM   #22
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

I would like to think that their reasoning is much the same as that which dictates that we won't get Jean-Paul Valley as Batman; namely that to the general public Peter Parker IS Spider-man or Bruce Wayne IS Batman and that (as far as the studios are concerned anyway) most people have no real interest in another character assuming that mantle. I would like to think that it's not down to race.

Having said that, audiences took to a Zorro who wasn't Don Diego De LaVega and TDKR ended with another character assuming Batman's mantle (though he hasn't gotten a spin-off movie and presumably won't, given that Ben Affleck is now Batman/Wayne).

It might also be interesting to see what happens if Sebastian Stan's Bucky Barnes takes over as Captain America or Don Cheadle as Iron Man. Will this prove that audiences are interested in the superhero mantle, not the man behind the mask? And if so, is the ball back in Sony's court?
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Old May 15 2014, 08:13 PM   #23
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

But when people watch a Batman movie, do they want to see a guy that dresses like a Bat and kicks criminals' asses, or do they want to specifically see Bruce Wayne? I think the former, not the latter. I think that it would have made no difference to the success of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight if they changed the name from Bruce Wayne to Dick Long.
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Old May 15 2014, 08:29 PM   #24
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

^ Well, yeah, that's why I'm pointing to Zorro (whose most recent incarnation was a character created specifically for the film) and mentioning the possibility of someone else taking over as Cap or IM.

In fact, the more I think about it, with Sony wanting an expanded Spider-man cinematic universe, that may well be the way to go, so as to avoid the need to reboot. Introduce Miles in Spider-man 3 or 4 and have him take over from Andrew Garfield's Peter in the next film. That way, they can keep their cinematic universe going, assuming that their Sinister Six and Venom spin-offs are as successful as they hope.
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Old May 15 2014, 09:36 PM   #25
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

Set Harth wrote: View Post
"Aren't you a little short to be Batman?"
I know you're just kidding, but Gordon-Levitt (5'9") is only an inch shorter than Keaton (not that Keaton cut the most imposing figure as Batman) and one or two inches shorter than Clooney depending on the source, so it's not that big a difference, and nothing that a pair of lifts couldn't fix if they were actually concerned about it.
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Old May 15 2014, 10:25 PM   #26
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I would question whether or not Sony would have the rights to Miles Morales as a specific character in the first place. The movie rights were sold to Columbia (who was then bought by Sony) back in the 90s, and I harbor doubts that the contract would be worded so vaguely that Sony would automatically hold the rights to a character created within the last five years.
This is likely a huge reason.
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Old May 15 2014, 11:02 PM   #27
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

God I can't stand Avi Arad. On all the DVD extra material he's on for the variety of Marvel movies he so utterly comes across as not caring whatsoever about the characters or franchise and clearly is just all about the $$$. Zero enthusiasm or interest whatsoever in his voice.



Also, didn't Andrew Garfield recently say that it would be cool if Miles Morales replaced him as Spider-Man.
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Andre...ies-42775.html

As he's also said he probably doesn't wanna be playing the role post-40. Seen as he's 31 in a few months, and if Sony really want to make a big franchise out of Spider-Man ala the MCU have done, then it's a good idea. Otherwise they'll have to reboot it all yet again in a few years.
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Old May 15 2014, 11:04 PM   #28
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

How about a Peter Parker starring movie that introduces Miles Morales as his partner?
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Old May 15 2014, 11:22 PM   #29
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Have black Peter Parker beat up racists just to make a point?
Yes. Yes. With lots of Parliament Funkadelic playing in the background.
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Old May 16 2014, 05:14 AM   #30
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Re: Race & Spider-Man: Sony Confirms a Glass Ceiling for Miles Morales

Mr Light wrote: View Post
How about a Peter Parker starring movie that introduces Miles Morales as his partner?
Personally, if there ever was one, I'd rather keep them separate...but I can see the appeal of that approach.

How about a rebooted Spidey series where Parker Parker (as an already well-known Spider-Man, ie: no origin story needed) dies very early on in the first film and inspires the newly powered Morales to take up the mantle? ...Or I can see that back-firing if fans rage against being tricked into seeing a Spidey movie "where he's barely in it".
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