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Old May 3 2014, 10:49 AM   #61
YellowSubmarine
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

Does trampoline refer to the water surface?

Here's a video of some Texan cows (watching F9R go to a kilometre and then land). I hope the next CRS this happens from orbital velocity.
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Old May 3 2014, 04:00 PM   #62
gturner
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

The cows were agitated because the rocket wasn't following a normal flight profile. For about twenty bovine generations, rockets have taken off with all engines lit and shot skyward, gaining continual velocity. The F9R looks like it took a passing interest in the herd and might just drift over to grill them.
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Old May 3 2014, 06:13 PM   #63
publiusr
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

Iod, the shining hunter returns!
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Old May 10 2014, 05:56 PM   #64
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

Musk/Space X being attacked on the web by ULA spokeman
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...?topic=34684.0

The phrase involving the words "deaf ears" comes to mind...

George Sowers tries to say that "ULA does not 'recieve' a subsidy"

And the response? " Regarding the term 'subsidy', if one looks at the definition of the word, it's hard to define the Launch Capability contract as anything but a subsidy."

One of the better responses: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...383#msg1196383

"I'm sorry, but IMHO, ULA was born of illegitimacy. The appeals to ULA's patriotism and the denigration of SpaceX as irresponsible and meddlesome are purely laughable when coming from a corporation with the history that it has"

More:

"I find ULA's irresponsibility the more galling. It is sending tens of millions of dollars a year to the acquisitive Russian government meanwhile our diplomats have to walk a tightrope of punishment and wink-and-nod in order to assure a continued supply to ULA. How did ULA get us in to this mess?"

Elon was going to the former Soviets to buy some rockets--but got treated in a rather ugly fashion:

Elon was ready to buy three Russian ICBMs for $21 million when the Russians told him that no, they meant $21 million for one. "They taunted him," Cantrell says. "They said, 'Oh, little boy, you don't have the money?' I said, 'Well, that's that.' I was sitting behind him on the flight back to London when he looked at me over the seat and said, 'I think we can build a rocket ourselves.'"

http://www.esquire.com/features/amer...interview-1212

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...373#msg1196373


in unrelated news, take a look at the puff fusion concept here
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/...on-technology/

China moonbase model
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

Last edited by publiusr; May 10 2014 at 06:54 PM.
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Old May 10 2014, 07:37 PM   #65
YellowSubmarine
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

Forgive me, but I am having a nerd-gasm over how elegantly SpaceX is failing in right about everything, I am almost willing to forgive them for their success. If only everyone else was failing in this manner, it would restore my faith in humanity.

Cheese in space, launch aborts, rocket engines exploding on tape. Launch manifest seriously delayed beyond any planning by preposterous, downright insane R&D and unexpected rocket upgrades nobody asked for. Their rockets are so unreliable their paranoid launch escape system will send astronauts for refuge on Mars. NASA and ESA tells them it's impossible to reuse rockets, they boneheadedly say common wisdom is not good enough for them and start landing stages and clock dozens of launches worth of engine firing in Texas.

And then what? They decide to fuck up all the legal issues too, and demonstrate the incompetence of their legal team by starting an utterly unsound failed challenge against ULA that gets everybody talking about how buying over-expensive engines from an unreliable partner is somehow neither cheap nor secure. Stirring the pot much, eh?

The only way it could get better if they accidentally ship weed on their first manned flight.
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Old May 10 2014, 09:26 PM   #66
sojourner
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

I think you're taking the piss, but it's hard to tell.
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Old May 10 2014, 09:58 PM   #67
gturner
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

He forgot to mention the increased pad wear that occurs whenever you launch a rocket more than a couple times a year, or once every couple of years. A launch can be devastating to the paint, allowing the pad to start rusting. But the protective rust layer will get blasted clean with each new launch, eroding the steel. If you want your launch pads to last, best not to launch at all, much less with the insane frequency that SpaceX is proposing. They're just crazy and irresponsible, giving no thought to the time that's supposed to go between sanding, priming, putting on the first coat, and then second coat. Their launch pads are always going to look like sorry flaky rust buckets.
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Old May 10 2014, 10:06 PM   #68
YellowSubmarine
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

I am not sure if my intent was to take a piss, I was kinda being serious (except for the cheese and exaggeration, obviously). When something doesn't go smoothly at SpaceX or they suffer a setback of any kind, I am genuinely excited for the way it often happens, or the reason the setback happened. Problems end up being a technological demonstration, what would have been a disaster end up being no big deal for F9, and there are surprises every time.

But then I am messed up that way, I also think that Apollo 13 did more for manned spaceflight than a successful Apollo 13 would have, in terms of demonstrating a number of space firsts that are crucial if we intend to seriously go into space – surviving engine failures, re-purposing spacecraft, improvising spaceflight plans, manufacturing necessities in space, rescuing astronauts (not technically a rescue, but still), course corrections by hand, and last but not least, giving assurance to humanity that space is possible even in the light of a disaster that one would expect to be deadly.

So how gracefully you handle a failure is a very important test on how well-suited our technology is for something so dangerous. I am very sentimental to that. And the (albeit minor) problems that SpaceX had are only reassuring. One would expect that the engine failure a second before lift off would have costed them the rocket, but a fault-tolerant design saved the day. It's little things like that.

(And I also like Elon's tendencies to go against common practises or to take wild risk, but that's starting too sound too much like hero worship. )
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Old May 11 2014, 04:31 AM   #69
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

I wouldn't say they've had an engine failure seconds before lift off. They've certainly never replaced an engine for any rocket that's made it to the pad. They have had some thrust anomalies that forced a shutdown moments before launch.

But yeah, I get what you are saying. SpaceX is very good at success through adversity.
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Old May 11 2014, 02:32 PM   #70
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

We all seem to learn more, and learn faster, from our mistakes or disappointing results than from our successes--if we examine them honestly and objectively, to find out why that approach failed and how we might be able to solve that problem.

Edison kept trying, and Churchill said to never give up.
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Old May 12 2014, 01:46 AM   #71
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Forgive me, but I am having a nerd-gasm over how elegantly SpaceX is failing in right about everything, I am almost willing to forgive them for their success. If only everyone else was failing in this manner, it would restore my faith in humanity.

Cheese in space, launch aborts, rocket engines exploding on tape. Launch manifest seriously delayed beyond any planning by preposterous, downright insane R&D and unexpected rocket upgrades nobody asked for. Their rockets are so unreliable their paranoid launch escape system will send astronauts for refuge on Mars. NASA and ESA tells them it's impossible to reuse rockets, they boneheadedly say common wisdom is not good enough for them and start landing stages and clock dozens of launches worth of engine firing in Texas.

And then what? They decide to fuck up all the legal issues too, and demonstrate the incompetence of their legal team by starting an utterly unsound failed challenge against ULA that gets everybody talking about how buying over-expensive engines from an unreliable partner is somehow neither cheap nor secure. Stirring the pot much, eh?

The only way it could get better if they accidentally ship weed on their first manned flight.
Either my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning, or you've just created the perfect meta-post that is somehow equally insulting to both sides, FROM both sides.

Also: Weed on the first manned flight? I'm pretty sure the ISS crew will hold a press release in which the station commander will announce, "Yes, we have learned that the SpaceX demonstration pilot WAS carrying a dime bag with him when he came to the station. We strongly deplore this action and we condemn SpaceX's total lapse in judgement, and we can assure all of you back home that we intend to fully and safely dispose of the offending substance just as soon as Orbital Sciences ships us an extra bag of Doritos."
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Old May 12 2014, 06:54 AM   #72
YellowSubmarine
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

You mean that the obviously stoned station commander will announce "The reports of weed being shipped aboard the Dragon have been greatly exaggerated. We all looked for it all across the capsule just now and didn't find any."
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Old May 16 2014, 05:39 PM   #73
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

Did you see the story about Dragon's departure from the Space Station?

http://www.nasa.gov/content/botanica...rew/index.html
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Old May 16 2014, 06:16 PM   #74
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

It leaves on Sunday.
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Old July 23 2014, 08:59 PM   #75
YellowSubmarine
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper

And we now know what a first stage landing looks like.




This is much better than the previous one, and despite the ice, this time you can see that the landing went perfectly. Hope they let them do it on land the next time.
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