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Old May 5 2014, 04:40 AM   #721
Mr. Adventure
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Samurai8472 wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
My guess is poor toy sales. I mean that's usually why good animated shows get cancelled, no?
They didn't even go all in with the toyline. There was apparently happy meals and one 6 inch figure
Maybe kids weren't too excited for Professor Pyg and Toad figures?

I've never quite understood the logic behind some of these things. Like if toy sales and such are important why create a series that would seem unlikely to generate such? Did anyone expect Beware to be good toy fodder?
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Old May 5 2014, 12:24 PM   #722
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

The pilot is on this Saturday night.
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Old May 5 2014, 02:44 PM   #723
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Maybe kids weren't too excited for Professor Pyg and Toad figures?

I've never quite understood the logic behind some of these things. Like if toy sales and such are important why create a series that would seem unlikely to generate such? Did anyone expect Beware to be good toy fodder?
Why wouldn't it be? Just because it featured characters that weren't already well-known? As I keep reminding people, Batman: The Animated Series and The Brave and the Bold both did exactly the same thing, giving formerly obscure characters their screen debuts or bringing them to new prominence. (Sure, a lot of B:TAS characters were prominent in comics, but any character that's only from the comics is by definition obscure to the vast majority of the TV or film audience that's never read them.)
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Old May 5 2014, 10:02 PM   #724
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

A non comic reading friend, was following me through my garage and pointed to a box of Batman and the Outsiders Comics, saying "What's that?"

I spoke to her as if she was an idiot "That's about Batman and Batman's friends."



She left with a handful under one arm.
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Old May 6 2014, 02:34 AM   #725
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Maybe kids weren't too excited for Professor Pyg and Toad figures?

I've never quite understood the logic behind some of these things. Like if toy sales and such are important why create a series that would seem unlikely to generate such? Did anyone expect Beware to be good toy fodder?
Why wouldn't it be? Just because it featured characters that weren't already well-known? As I keep reminding people, Batman: The Animated Series and The Brave and the Bold both did exactly the same thing, giving formerly obscure characters their screen debuts or bringing them to new prominence. (Sure, a lot of B:TAS characters were prominent in comics, but any character that's only from the comics is by definition obscure to the vast majority of the TV or film audience that's never read them.)
Not just unknowns, but odd unsavory types with weird gangly proportions, no fancy gadgets, low key Batmobile and vehicles, no cannon fodder enemies. If toy sales are an important part of success I think they could probably make it easier on themselves.
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Old May 6 2014, 03:23 AM   #726
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

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Not just unknowns, but odd unsavory types with weird gangly proportions
B:TAS's character designs had very strange proportions compared to what had come before. People forget how radically new it was. And today there are plenty of other animation franchises with very stylized character designs, and that doesn't preclude them from selling toys.

no fancy gadgets
Batman certainly does have gadgets in this show -- in fact, the designers made a physical mockup of Batman's utility belt and gadgets to make sure the design could actually work in three dimensions. That strikes me as something with obvious role-play toy possibilities -- a Batman utility belt you can actually wear and use!

Anyway, the old B:TAS toys had a ton of variant costumes and accessories that were never used in the show. Toy designers have a long history of creating accessories and vehicles out of thin air in order to sell more toys -- like Superman's flying vehicle with fists on the front, or the Hulk's motorcycle, or whatever.

no cannon fodder enemies.
Since when was that an issue? I don't remember the B:TAS toys including a lot of henchmen.


If toy sales are an important part of success I think they could probably make it easier on themselves.
The primary responsibility of the makers of the show is to make the best show they can. The toys are the responsibility of the toymakers, and as I've said, they can come up with all sorts of things on their own beyond what's actually on the screen. That's what they're paid to do.
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Old May 6 2014, 03:50 AM   #727
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Not just unknowns, but odd unsavory types with weird gangly proportions, no fancy gadgets, low key Batmobile and vehicles, no cannon fodder enemies. If toy sales are an important part of success I think they could probably make it easier on themselves.

There was certainly things they could have expanded on

This was just the Happy Meals








They could have easily expanded into a full fledged toyline but they didn't capitalize on it
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Old May 6 2014, 04:18 AM   #728
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Uhh, the people who make the show are not the people who make the toys. The toy companies are the ones who failed to capitalize on the show. Those decisions aren't necessarily in the control of the show's producers. For instance, Green Lantern: The Animated Series had quite a lot of toy potential, what with the diverse characters and the spaceship and so forth, but the toy companies wouldn't touch it because there were still a bunch of Green Lantern movie toys gathering dust on shelves. They were doomed by circumstances beyond their control.

And doesn't Cartoon Network deserve some of the blame for basing its programming decisions on toy sales alone rather than the quality of the actual shows? This is a network that killed Paul Dini's Tower Prep because it was too popular with female viewers. They cancelled a show because of good ratings. That's insane. They're too obsessed with selling toys to boys in a very limited age range, and that makes no sense. They're not a toy company, they're a TV network. Their priorities should not be so narrow. They're shooting themselves in the foot by cancelling good shows that don't fit their unreasonable constraints. Let's not blame the shows for being held to unfair standards.
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Old May 6 2014, 05:33 AM   #729
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

So are you saying that absolutely nothing CN does with their programming can help or hinder the production and sale of toys? It's all driven completely by the mercurial whims of the toy companies who just make toys at random for various properties?
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Old May 6 2014, 01:49 PM   #730
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
So are you saying that absolutely nothing CN does with their programming can help or hinder the production and sale of toys? It's all driven completely by the mercurial whims of the toy companies who just make toys at random for various properties?
It's funnier when you keep in mind he loves Power Rangers.
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Old May 6 2014, 03:52 PM   #731
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
So are you saying that absolutely nothing CN does with their programming can help or hinder the production and sale of toys? It's all driven completely by the mercurial whims of the toy companies who just make toys at random for various properties?
No, of course not. Reality is subtle and multicausal, not a matter of simplistic absolutes and extremes.

Anyway, I don't understand what you're asking. I was talking about several different groups: The people at Warner Bros. Television Animation who produce Beware the Batman, and whose primary responsibility is to make a good show; the people at Cartoon Network, who purchase and broadcast shows and line up advertisers for them; and the people at the toy companies, whose job is to develop toy lines based on the programs they make contracts with. Of course those are all interacting responsibilities, but they're meant to operate in synergy, with each group focused primarily on its own specialty, because that's how division of labor works in any collaborative human endeavor.

Your question puzzles me because it sounds like you're responding to my comment that the makers of the show are not responsible for doing the entirety of the toy designers' job for them -- and yet you're referring to "CN programmers," who are a separate group from the Warner Bros. producers. The production company that makes a show and the network that programs and broadcasts a show are two separate entities with different and often conflicting goals -- as should be obvious given how many of WB's shows have been killed in recent years by CN's programming priorities. What I'm saying is that those priorities are so narrow and dysfunctional that they lead to the avoidable cancellation of many good shows. Yes, there should be a symbiotic relationship between production company, broadcaster, and advertisers, and that can be a healthy and functional synergy; but CN's current policies do not seem to promote that kind of synergy, not where older-skewing shows like Tower Prep, Green Lantern, Young Justice, and BtB are concerned.
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Old May 6 2014, 09:27 PM   #732
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Hmm, if the series is going to air at 3 AM Eastern on Toonami, I wonder if "Ghost in the Shell" is going to be dropped? That was the show for that time slot and I think they just finished repeating the last episode of the the first season last weekend.

No, not meaning to make a "fuss", just wondering.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old May 6 2014, 10:24 PM   #733
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

The paucity of promotion and support for the show as evidenced by what is apparently an almost total lack of merchandise, would I think indicate that someone somewhere along the line decided the show was going to fail and to let it die on the vine.
Maybe it didn't just didn't focus test well. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.

Last edited by Reverend; May 6 2014 at 10:45 PM.
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Old May 6 2014, 10:56 PM   #734
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

I didn't realize that was actually how that stuff worked.
I'm still baffled by the attitudes of the CN execs from the last time this came up. I wonder if there's any chance of any of the DC shows being picked up by someone like Netflix or Amazon Prime? I'm assuming it's probably to long since they ended for there to be any interest in YJ or GL:TAS, but probably not for BTB.

I wonder if they'll try any more DC comic based animated series any time soon? With so many live action shows (possibly) starting, it would be a shame not to have at least one animated series to go along with them.
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Old May 7 2014, 01:24 AM   #735
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Re: "Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

There are still the DC Universe DVD movies, but I'm not pleased with their recent trajectory.
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