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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old May 2 2014, 09:16 PM   #16
Starkers
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Christopher wrote: View Post
^But then how would you handle scenes written from the War Doctor's POV? He wouldn't call himself that in his own internal monologue.

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Old May 2 2014, 09:24 PM   #17
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Yea, I pretty much figure, he didn't deal with a whole lot of people he bothered introducing himself to, and those who knew him (The Time Lords) called him Doctor, because that's what they knew that Time Lord as, despite what face he wore.

On a rare occasion when did have to provide a name, he probably went with the old standby of John Smith
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Old May 2 2014, 09:24 PM   #18
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Doctor Who novels generally don't have scenes from the Doctor's POV so it won't be a problem.
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Old May 3 2014, 02:21 AM   #19
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Sindatur wrote: View Post
On a rare occasion when did have to provide a name, he probably went with the old standby of John Smith
I really don't see how that would have worked.

Floz of Gallifrey: "I'm sorry sir, I didn't catch your name."
Doctor: "John Smith."
Floz of Gallifrey: "What kind of name is that?"

Yeah, I know, he could have substituted it with whatever the Gallifreyan version of John Smith is, but I assume he didn't since in my mind that is his real name.
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Old May 3 2014, 05:03 AM   #20
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

sidious618 wrote: View Post
Doctor Who novels generally don't have scenes from the Doctor's POV so it won't be a problem.
The ones I've read often do. Certainly the most recent one I've read, Corpse Marker by Chris Boucher, did.
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Old May 3 2014, 06:07 AM   #21
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Christopher wrote: View Post
sidious618 wrote: View Post
Doctor Who novels generally don't have scenes from the Doctor's POV so it won't be a problem.
The ones I've read often do. Certainly the most recent one I've read, Corpse Marker by Chris Boucher, did.
I've read over 100 Doctor Who novels (perhaps not a point of pride ) and it's pretty rare and it's even rarer that he refers to himself as the Doctor in his internal thoughts- why would he? I don't refer to myself in the third person too often in my head.

When Virgin was publishing Doctor Who novels they banned writers from writing from the Doctor's perspective in order to keep mystery about him. Not sure if that mandate carried over to the BBC books, but a lot of authors followed it mandate or no.
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Old May 3 2014, 01:39 PM   #22
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

sidious618 wrote: View Post
I don't refer to myself in the third person too often in my head.
I do.

When Virgin was publishing Doctor Who novels they banned writers from writing from the Doctor's perspective in order to keep mystery about him. Not sure if that mandate carried over to the BBC books, but a lot of authors followed it mandate or no.
It's definitely not mandated by BBC Books, the NSAs have done it a few times. But you're right, it is rare, even the books which do it usually it's just for one portion when the Doctor is separated from companion or any other of the book's "guest stars." Of course, since this novel is giving the War Doctor a companion (according to DWM) most internal monologues may well be from the companion's POV anyway.
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Old May 3 2014, 02:50 PM   #23
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

sidious618 wrote: View Post
I've read over 100 Doctor Who novels (perhaps not a point of pride ) and it's pretty rare and it's even rarer that he refers to himself as the Doctor in his internal thoughts- why would he? I don't refer to myself in the third person too often in my head.
Except we're not talking about a first-person internal monologue. We're talking about the literary device of writing a scene in the third person but telling it from within a particular character's point of view -- i.e. relating what they're thinking and what they perceive from their own perspective, and only describing other characters' actions from the viewpoint character's perspective.

For instance, from Boucher's Corpse Marker, p. 21-22 of the newly released "Monster Collection" edition:
The Doctor had walked along the narrow gantry and peered through the observation ports of five more of the green-lit chambers before he was satisfied that what he was seeing was unlikely to be a coincidence or a trick of the light.
...
They didn't look to the Doctor like gill-breathers, so either this was a breathable liquid or these were different to the normal run of air-breathing bipedal clones.
...
It struck the Doctor that this might just be one of those deeply conformist societies whose disciplines involved a rigid dress code and whose repressions included a horror of nakedness. He hoped not. It was his experience that such societies tended to violence and Leela already had more than enough tendencies in that direction.
See? Third person, but within his thoughts. The standard way to write a third-person scene in the modern fiction style.

Another example is Alastair Reynolds's Harvest of Time. The very first page I opened to at random, p. 97, starts with this:
The Doctor watched the Master's accommodation block sinking slowly back into the flooded pit, trailing the dark umbilicals of electrical, air and water-supply cables as it descended beneath the glowing waterline. Jo, anxious to be out of the enhanced radiation environment, had gone ahead of the Doctor. He did not much blame her for that, feeling no great inclination to linger himself.

sidious618 wrote: View Post
When Virgin was publishing Doctor Who novels they banned writers from writing from the Doctor's perspective in order to keep mystery about him. Not sure if that mandate carried over to the BBC books, but a lot of authors followed it mandate or no.
The books I've quoted from are BBC books. However, I pulled out one of my Virgin books at random, State of Change by Christopher Bulis, and here's what I found when I randomly opened to a page (p. 205-6):
Metaphorically, the Doctor was resting his mind as well; sitting back in a corner of his own consciousness with his feet up, as it were, and letting the personality of his third incarnation handle the physical side of things, and strike up a bonhomie with his fellow gladiators. It was hard to believe that men who might be dead the next day could still find time for humour and a strange sort of fellowship, but such was the case. Human beings never ceased to amaze him.
Of course, three books isn't that large a sample, but if Doctor's-POV scenes were that rare, then the probability of my randomly coming across them on the first page I opened to in two consecutive books would be extremely low. My ease in finding them suggests, therefore, that they are relatively common -- though it would require a much larger sample size to be sure.

(State of Change is a Sixth Doctor novel, though. I can certainly buy that Virgin banned scenes from the Seventh Doctor's POV in their New Adventures line, since he was meant to be a man of mystery. But maybe that didn't apply to the Missing Adventures.)
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Old May 4 2014, 10:06 PM   #24
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Eh, they'll probably just call him Captain Grumpy.
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Old May 6 2014, 05:20 AM   #25
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

I'm well aware of what third person point of view is, both limited and omniscient, but I don't see any reason the novel will refer to him as the Warrior instead of the Doctor. For business purposes, I imagine the BBC will want them to refer to him as the Doctor. We know he doubted how much he was truly the Doctor, but we also know we're reading a novel and that the BBC will probably want him to come across as clearly as possible for sales purposes.

The Virgin creed might've only been for the Seventh Doctor, that's possible. Still, come the BBC eighth Doctor books he was usually seen through the eyes of someone else or when the scene was just him it was always a very limited view into his mind.
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Old May 6 2014, 05:32 AM   #26
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Christopher wrote: View Post
^But then how would you handle scenes written from the War Doctor's POV? He wouldn't call himself that in his own internal monologue.
He could use the name he had before he started going by the Doctor.
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Old May 6 2014, 04:02 PM   #27
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
He could use the name he had before he started going by the Doctor.
No, because of course we're never going to be told what the Doctor's real name was.

Hmm... I suppose it's possible to write a third-person scene from within a character's viewpoint and not use any name for that character at all in the narration. Just calling him "he" would be confusing if there were other male characters in the scene, but maybe a mix of "he," "the Time Lord," "the old man," things like that.
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Old May 6 2014, 04:49 PM   #28
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

The Artist Formerly Known as the Doctor, or squiggle for short.
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Old May 6 2014, 05:12 PM   #29
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

They could always do actual Internal Viewpoint, and simply have him refer to himself as "me" or "I"
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Old May 7 2014, 06:32 PM   #30
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Re: The War Doctor Returns in a New Novel

The dust jacket copy:

"The death of billions is as nothing to us Doctor, if it helps defeat the Daleks."

The Great Time War has raged for centuries, ravaging the universe. Scores of human colony planets are now overrun by Dalek occupation forces. A weary, angry Doctor leads a flotilla of Battle TARDISes against the Dalek stronghold but in the midst of the carnage, the Doctor’s TARDIS crashes to a planet below: Moldox.

As the Doctor is trapped in an apocalyptic landscape, Dalek patrols roam amongst the wreckage, rounding up the remaining civilians. But why haven't the Daleks simply killed the humans?

Searching for answers the Doctor meets 'Cinder', a young Dalek hunter. Their struggles to discover the Dalek plan take them from the ruins of Moldox to the halls of Gallifrey, and set in motion a chain of events that will change everything. And everyone.

An epic novel of the Great Time War featuring the War Doctor as played by John Hurt.
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