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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old May 3 2014, 04:49 AM   #76
HIjol
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

scotthm wrote: View Post
Timelord Victorious wrote: View Post
scotthm wrote: View Post
The good news is that confidence (or not) in evolution or the Big Bang will have virtually no effect on how most people live their everyday lives.
that's because if scientist went away and took the science away with them from everybody else there'd be a riot!
I don't get it. Are you saying there will be riots if enough people don't believe in the Big Bang?
...wait...so if there is no Big Bang...and the people riot because...the...sci..sigh...Scientists take away...the science...then...

SHE'S A WITCH!!!!!!!...burn her...burn her!!....
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Old May 3 2014, 05:20 AM   #77
JanewayRulz!
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

HIjol wrote: View Post
Hmmm...been following this very interesting thread with it's important topic...some well laid out arguments and talking points, to be sure...never actually seen the show, but that is for another thread...I have been looking back at the actual survey questions Yellow provided us with, and I can't quite make it work...has it occurred to anyone, that, with all due respect to the respondents, they did not understand what "the Big Bang" meant in the context of the survey, and neither did they understand what "Natural Selection" meant...?

...and, finally, I do not understand asking them about their confidence in Science in the context of the question about a Supreme Being guiding the Universe's creation...???

...help me clarify?
Or, maybe they were not confident in the actual numbers being tossed around. Instead of a specific number for age of the Earth and Universe, they simply said "billions of years" old?

I know when I read the questions, I wondered just how old the scientists were estimating the universe at this juncture.

Was I confident the Universe was "wicked old?"

Yup.

Was I confident it was 13 or 17 or 23 billion years?

Nope.

So I might have answered only "somewhat confident" despite the fact that I believe in TBBT (The theory, not the show)
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Old May 3 2014, 05:10 PM   #78
HIjol
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

Good words from the The House of Janeway...
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Old May 3 2014, 06:30 PM   #79
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
HIjol wrote: View Post
Hmmm...been following this very interesting thread with it's important topic...some well laid out arguments and talking points, to be sure...never actually seen the show, but that is for another thread...I have been looking back at the actual survey questions Yellow provided us with, and I can't quite make it work...has it occurred to anyone, that, with all due respect to the respondents, they did not understand what "the Big Bang" meant in the context of the survey, and neither did they understand what "Natural Selection" meant...?

...and, finally, I do not understand asking them about their confidence in Science in the context of the question about a Supreme Being guiding the Universe's creation...???

...help me clarify?
Or, maybe they were not confident in the actual numbers being tossed around. Instead of a specific number for age of the Earth and Universe, they simply said "billions of years" old?

I know when I read the questions, I wondered just how old the scientists were estimating the universe at this juncture.

Was I confident the Universe was "wicked old?"

Yup.

Was I confident it was 13 or 17 or 23 billion years?

Nope.

So I might have answered only "somewhat confident" despite the fact that I believe in TBBT (The theory, not the show)
That was my reaction to the poll as well.
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Old May 3 2014, 07:09 PM   #80
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

Well this is what NASA says on the age of the universe

http://wmap.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_age.html

Until recently, astronomers estimated that the Big Bang occurred between 12 and 14 billion years ago. To put this in perspective, the Solar System is thought to be 4.5 billion years old and humans have existed as a genus for only a few million years. Astronomers estimate the age of the universe in two ways: 1) by looking for the oldest stars; and 2) by measuring the rate of expansion of the universe and extrapolating back to the Big Bang; just as crime detectives can trace the origin of a bullet from the holes in a wall.

And looking at the wiki article

In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The best measurement of the age of the universe is 13.798±0.037 billion years ((13.798±0.037)×109 years or (4.354±0.012)×1017 seconds) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

Yes we might not know the exact age of the universe but using the NASA link but everything I've heard or read about the universe said a big bang and I've heard various ages between 12-15bn years. But it's not like i look up that inofrmation every month to see if it's change. So x years ago I might have heard it was 12bn years old, it's not unreasnable to think during the period since I last heard the figure and today that number has been revised. So if the 13.8bn years old is current figure it's not unreasanble for a survey to use that. If the survey was done in a decades time the figure might be 13.6bn years old.
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Old May 3 2014, 07:15 PM   #81
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

A time period as small as a million of years is already impossible for me to grasp. That's a dozen time longer than the human history, and my awareness of it goes back to 4-6 thousand at most. I know the important milestones that happened before that, but I cannot picture them on a time scale – it all fades into a couple of dudes sitting in a cave for what seems like an eternity, amidst which all major migrations happened in a blink of an eye. Multicellular life doesn't have a billion years yet. If someone bumped in me on the street and asked me was the universe billions of years old, and I didn't have an interest in the matter, I would not know how to answer as billions and millions would sound the same to me.
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Old May 3 2014, 07:43 PM   #82
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

I've never lumped, say, early steady-state proponents or even folks who float articles like this one:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/05/pro...expanding.html

As being down there in the mire as Young Earth Creationists.

They won't be getting any press from Next Big--you can count on that.
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Old May 3 2014, 09:19 PM   #83
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

HIjol wrote: View Post
they did not understand what "the Big Bang" meant in the context of the survey, and neither did they understand what "Natural Selection" meant
They didn't understand what concept was being referred to with the term? If instead the questioner had described the big bang (without using the term "big bang") would the respondents have given a different answer? Possibly.

I think for many people the "don't accept" comes less from a actual rejection of the theory, and more from a position that the theory is irrelevant and ultimately unimportant.

You have to admit, the big bang theory is really pretty esoteric.

There is also the on-going problem with the big bang theory in some peoples minds that there is no consensus at to where the matter and energy that composed it originally came from.

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Old May 3 2014, 11:58 PM   #84
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

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You have to admit, the big bang theory is really pretty esoteric.
There was nothing and then BOOM! the Universe. See how I explained the Big Bang theory. Yes the details are esoteric but the details are only important to cosmologists.

There is also the on-going problem with the big bang theory in some peoples minds that there is no consensus at to where the matter and energy that composed it originally came from.

But these same people have no problem with where God came from.

I can see how people are bothered by the fact that we don't live in a causal universe but that's the way it is.
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Old May 4 2014, 07:03 AM   #85
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

Yminale wrote: View Post
But these same people have no problem with where God came from.
I think for many people it's no more difficult to believe that God "just is" than it is to believe that the universe popped into existence from nothing.

---------------
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Old May 4 2014, 04:27 PM   #86
JarodRussell
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

scotthm wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
But these same people have no problem with where God came from.
I think for many people it's no more difficult to believe that God "just is" than it is to believe that the universe popped into existence from nothing.
It seems to be, that's why God is always brought up. "Oh, the universe is so complex, God must have done it. Nature is so diverse, God must have created everything." - "So where did complex God come from, and where did he get his complex ideas from?" - "Oh, he always was and he knows everything." Err, brainfart.
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Old May 4 2014, 07:54 PM   #87
T'Girl
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

Yminale wrote: View Post
But these same people have no problem with where God came from.
If you were to say that the matter and energy was alway there (like God) and that the universe has expanded and contracted in a endless series of big bangs, that would one theory.

Or, that the matter and energy was (somehow) created in the big bang and never existed before, that would be another theory.

But there's no consensus at this time, and this is a hole in the theory. Come on science guys, take a position.

Monotheists hold that God was alway there and didn't "come from" somewhere. Also that the matter and energy that is the universe was created in a supernatural event.

That's what is called taking a position. Regardless if you agree with the position taken.

Your turn, where did the big bang "come from?"

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Old May 4 2014, 09:53 PM   #88
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

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Old May 6 2014, 02:40 PM   #89
Stoo
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

T'Girl wrote: View Post
. Come on science guys, take a position.
Sometimes it's okay to say, we don't know. Cosmologists will take a more definitive stance when more evidence is uncovered!
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Old May 6 2014, 03:50 PM   #90
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Re: 51% of Americans don't accept the Big Bang theory

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Sometimes it's okay to say, we don't know.
I agree, only I'd say "all the time," not merely sometimes.

Cosmologists will take a more definitive stance when more evidence is uncovered!
Mainstream cosmologists have already taken a definitive a stance, stubbornly wedded to their dogma in spite of overwhelming falsification of the Big Bang at all levels. "Believing is seeing."
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