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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 29 2014, 09:37 AM   #31
AllStarEntprise
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Can't go wrong with the "Genesis Trilogy" TWOK, TSFS, and TVH. FC and ST09 are also good introductions of Star Trek to non fans. Nothing too brow beating and compelling enough to get them involved.

I tried to get my friends in to Star Trek once, and chose TMP. They were bored and turned on reruns of Grey's Anatomy 40 minutes in to the film.
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Old May 1 2014, 09:23 AM   #32
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

mendelin wrote: View Post
I'm in minority, but still...
I think, the best beginning is The Motion Picture. The reasons, why:
1. Gene Roddenberry and his vision.
2. The best cinematography and the best music.
3. The best example of what is the Star Trek villian should be.
4. The best basis for discussions and questions to Trekkies

TMP is the best presentation for Star Trek world. This movie can lead to good discussion and arouse interest to other movies and shows.

I'm a HUGE fan of TMP. But I don't feel the same way. For a hardcore Trekkie, it's perfect. For someone who doesn't know Trek, it's to much at all once. It's like introducing someone to Indian cuisine, and choosing the hottest, spiciest curry you can find. It's an overload.

I was introduced to Trek through TMP, and I can honoustly say that, even though I love it to death, had it been the first Trek I ever saw, I would have changed the channel.
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Old May 1 2014, 01:22 PM   #33
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Either Abrams's first movie or TWOK - either way they're not likely to be bored, which is generally the trickiest thing about introducing someone to this franchise.
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Old May 1 2014, 06:12 PM   #34
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

ST09 and STII
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Old May 1 2014, 06:50 PM   #35
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Mage wrote: View Post
mendelin wrote: View Post
I'm in minority, but still...
I think, the best beginning is The Motion Picture. The reasons, why:
1. Gene Roddenberry and his vision.
2. The best cinematography and the best music.
3. The best example of what is the Star Trek villian should be.
4. The best basis for discussions and questions to Trekkies

TMP is the best presentation for Star Trek world. This movie can lead to good discussion and arouse interest to other movies and shows.

I'm a HUGE fan of TMP. But I don't feel the same way. For a hardcore Trekkie, it's perfect. For someone who doesn't know Trek, it's to much at all once. It's like introducing someone to Indian cuisine, and choosing the hottest, spiciest curry you can find. It's an overload.

I was introduced to Trek through TMP, and I can honoustly say that, even though I love it to death, had it been the first Trek I ever saw, I would have changed the channel.
There's also the fact that the whole first part of the movie is about getting the old gang together and reuniting Kirk with the Enterprise--all of which works if you already have an emotional connection to the characters and their history. But will mean nothing to newbies.

Ditto for all the scenes establishing that Spock is oddly aloof toward his old friends, even by Vulcan standards. Again, Spock's brusque manner upon meeting Kirk and McCoy registers if you're already familiar with the characters, but a newbie is likely to be puzzled when Kirk or McCoy or whomever are somewhat taken aback by Spock's attitude . . .
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Old May 1 2014, 10:49 PM   #36
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
There's also the fact that the whole first part of the movie is about getting the old gang together and reuniting Kirk with the Enterprise--all of which works if you already have an emotional connection to the characters and their history. But will mean nothing to newbies.
Isn't re-introducing the same as introducing for someone who hasn't seen anything of it?

Ditto for all the scenes establishing that Spock is oddly aloof toward his old friends, even by Vulcan standards. Again, Spock's brusque manner upon meeting Kirk and McCoy registers if you're already familiar with the characters, but a newbie is likely to be puzzled when Kirk or McCoy or whomever are somewhat taken aback by Spock's attitude...
But there are enough reaction shots to sell the idea that his behavior isn't what they expected.


It's not different from any standalone movie that has a character "return" to meet other characters who he has "history" with, and then they say "we go back a long way" and "man, you've changed".

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Old May 2 2014, 01:12 AM   #37
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Isn't re-introducing the same as introducing for someone who hasn't seen anything of it?
No.

Introducing characters generally requires that you give the audience a reason to give a damn about them. ST:TMP doesn't. It assumes familiarity.
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Old May 2 2014, 01:41 AM   #38
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

The Voyage Home.
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Old May 2 2014, 02:31 AM   #39
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Dennis wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Isn't re-introducing the same as introducing for someone who hasn't seen anything of it?
No.

Introducing characters generally requires that you give the audience a reason to give a damn about them. ST:TMP doesn't. It assumes familiarity.
That would be rather a fault of how TMP did it but not a fault of the principle.
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Old May 2 2014, 04:12 AM   #40
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Isn't re-introducing the same as introducing for someone who hasn't seen anything of it?
No.

Introducing characters generally requires that you give the audience a reason to give a damn about them. ST:TMP doesn't. It assumes familiarity.
That would be rather a fault of how TMP did it but not a fault of the principle.
You didn't elucidate a principle; you asked what you mistakenly assumed to be a rhetorical question.
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Old May 2 2014, 05:44 AM   #41
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Isn't re-introducing the same as introducing for someone who hasn't seen anything of it?
No.

Introducing characters generally requires that you give the audience a reason to give a damn about them. ST:TMP doesn't. It assumes familiarity.
That would be rather a fault of how TMP did it but not a fault of the principle.
Perhaps, but we're talking about TMP and the practical issue of whether those opening scenes would mean anything to newbies. Like Dennis said, the movie assumes that we already know and love these characters.

"Look! It's Bones . . . with a beard. And just as cranky as ever!"
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Old May 2 2014, 06:02 AM   #42
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Or, having Scotty begin yammering about his technical problems as soon as Kirk materializes. There's not much charm or comedy in that unless you know it as an old song; it's just whining.
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Old May 2 2014, 12:18 PM   #43
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

The answer to this is so resoundingly ST09 to me, that it occured to me I'd rather show them trailer #3 from it rather than any other whole Trek movie.
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Old May 2 2014, 02:40 PM   #44
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

Dennis wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post

No.

Introducing characters generally requires that you give the audience a reason to give a damn about them. ST:TMP doesn't. It assumes familiarity.
That would be rather a fault of how TMP did it but not a fault of the principle.
You didn't elucidate a principle; you asked what you mistakenly assumed to be a rhetorical question.
LOL. It wasn't a rhetorical question.

The principle is that for someone newly initiated, a re-introduction is the same as an introduction. Old fans go "Ah, yeah, we know that guy." but that doesn't turn off others.

Basically, it doesn't matter if we have seen a character's backstory in previous episodes or not. There are so many standalone films that hint at an unfilmed backstory for characters. It works.


Let's look at TWOK. Khan hates Kirk, for being exiled on a planet, where his wife died. No need to see Space Seed to understand that. Chekov isn't aboard the Enterprise at the beginning. Who is Chekov? It's not even necessary to know that he was aboard the Enterprise throughout the show. It's mentioned in the film when it's needed.

Or First Contact. So Picard has history with the Borg. No need to have watched Best of Both Worlds or any other Borg episode to get that. There's a new Enterprise. No need to know that there has been an old one that has been destroyed. Fans go "Oh look at that" when Picard smashes the Enterprise-D model, and it enhances the meaning of that scene for fans, but that's nothing to put new people off.


That said, I don't think there is any scene in TMP that would be not interesting just because you haven't seen the show. I actually know that for a fact for myself, because I have seen TMP first, and TOS only much later.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
"Look! It's Bones . . . with a beard. And just as cranky as ever!"
It's sold well enough. It's reported to Kirk that there is a guy resisting transport (the dangers had already been established). Then there's a smirk hinting at Kirk knowing the dude well. Then he gets beamed aboard with a pretty rough looking beard (in a world where everyone else is clean shaven), and he talks about being drafted, and rambles about new things replacing old things. And later he appears shaved anyways. Those things are all things that don't need TOS as background knowledge. So Kirk has a cranky long time friend who left Starfleet prior to the film. That works well standalone.


Again, it's coming down to subjective impression. Some people will like it on first sight, like I did, and some people will yawn. But that applies to every film.
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Last edited by JarodRussell; May 2 2014 at 02:58 PM.
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Old May 2 2014, 03:28 PM   #45
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Re: Which movie would you use to introduce someone with Star Trek?

It's so hard trying to gauge my boyfriend, a non-Trekkie. After we watched the Abrams films, he asked me (to my surprise) if we could watch a couple of the first 10 movies and asked for my recommendations. Like most others here, I suggested TWOK and FC. He was utterly bored by them, claiming FC was too much like the show, and that TWOK moved too slow.

Then, out of curiosity, I put on TMP and, to my surprise, he paid attention to all that. To all that! The movie ran long and it was getting close to bed time, so I stopped the movie halfway. The next night, he (HE) asked if we could continue the movie. Obviously I was shocked with a tinge of disagreement, but who am I to tell a burgeoning Trekkie what he can and can't like?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all. I'd really like to show him TUC, but I'm worried that he might treat it like TWOK. But
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