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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old April 30 2014, 07:49 PM   #16
bryce
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
QuinnTV wrote: View Post
How do you explain the exterior shot of Ten Forward that puts it on the saucer's edge? I can't recall, at the moment, which episode that was in.
I don't, but given the majority of externally visible shots and other items for size reference, as pointed out by King Daniel, I'm choosing the lesser of two (we)evils. YMMV

The window bay above the Captain's Yacht also faces "forward", so I don't see a problem here. Admittedly, the Ten Forward windows are not compatible with this window bay, but neither are they compatible with the central bow windows on the saucer section of the bigger 6-foot VFX model.

For all I know the "ten" could refer to the amount of tables or hospitality zones or else. But if one insisted, the "ten" were referring to the actual deck number, I'd wonder how tall the decks then would be on an Enterprise-D now almost twice the size of Andrew Probert's creation...

Bob
I always wish that we had the budget and technology to see what was behind some of those windows! I imagine spaces like TMP's Rec Room...and various observation lounges, crew relaxation areas, diplomatic meeting/banquet rooms...*arboretums*...

I just always wondered because we saw a lot of window-fronted spaces like that on the E-D and E-E...and I always wanted to know what was behind them. Both the E-D and the E-E had space for LOTS of rooms as big as the TMP Rec Room...and not *everyone* probably just hung out in 10-Forward. (I would love to see a fan or professional artists conception of and Enterprise-D Rec Dec...)
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Old April 30 2014, 07:58 PM   #17
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

And all respect to Probert (who's work I *LOVE*)...I always liked the idea of the bigger?massive ship that the 10-Forward implied. (And now it makes it STILL bigger than the JJ'Prise!)

But I guess when we saw all those movie models looking massive next to the E-D - the scale *wasn't* off like I thought...it was just right. But that doesn't seem right to me. To me, the E-D should be HUGE.

One of my biggest problems with the E-D is that the bigger windows...well, *do* make sense on a bigger ship. But part of my mind still see's them as the same says as the movie ship windows...so in *downscales* the Enterprise-D in my head. But maybe I'm seeing it as closer to the scale it was meant to be.

Wish I could see a comparison of both "sizes" of the ship, taking into account 10-forward.
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Old April 30 2014, 10:08 PM   #18
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

IIRC, we had a couple of redresses of the conference lounge to represent different rooms.

The one I can instantly think of is the (actual) observation lounge facing forward with Picard in it in "Farpoint" but there were also other examples.

Bob
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Old May 1 2014, 11:07 AM   #19
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

bryce wrote: View Post
And all respect to Probert (who's work I *LOVE*)...I always liked the idea of the bigger?massive ship that the 10-Forward implied. (And now it makes it STILL bigger than the JJ'Prise!)

But I guess when we saw all those movie models looking massive next to the E-D - the scale *wasn't* off like I thought...it was just right. But that doesn't seem right to me. To me, the E-D should be HUGE.

One of my biggest problems with the E-D is that the bigger windows...well, *do* make sense on a bigger ship. But part of my mind still see's them as the same says as the movie ship windows...so in *downscales* the Enterprise-D in my head. But maybe I'm seeing it as closer to the scale it was meant to be.

Wish I could see a comparison of both "sizes" of the ship, taking into account 10-forward.
The Ent D overall is a larger ship than the JJPrise even at 641 meters, its just the nacelles of the the JJPrise are very long which gives the ship greater overall length.
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Old May 1 2014, 11:14 AM   #20
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Well, the topic was partially discussed in the fan art section. Since the final Ten Forward windows do not match the bow windows of the 6-footer VFX model, I tend to envision the location of Ten Forward to be the set of windows above the Captain's Yacht.

That should have been the optimal location in the first place, anyway.

Bob
Those "windows" are the saucer's deflector dish...
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Old May 1 2014, 01:01 PM   #21
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Those "windows" are the saucer's deflector dish...
According to the creator of the Enterprise-D these belong to some kind of observation gallery.



Andrew Probert even put some people there to illustrate the idea. So I think it's fair to say that the TNG Technical Manual got that wrong with the deflector idea.

Besides, that window area is sometimes lit and sometimes not (depending which VFX model was in use).

Bob
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Old May 2 2014, 10:55 AM   #22
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

Ah, but which is more authoritative (notice I didn't say canonical)? The designer's original intent, or the intent of the people who develop the show over seven years?
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Old May 2 2014, 01:12 PM   #23
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

I'd say it's the person that created the ship in all its details, unless "canonically" certain details were revisioned later on-screen which isn't the case here.

I mean, how could the TNG Tech Manual author seriously claim to know the function of an item better than the person who had actually created and put it there?

And IIRC ever since TMP, illuminated deflector "thingies" had a blue color, while windows or the like were usually featured with a white color.

Bob
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Old May 2 2014, 07:32 PM   #24
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

I mean, how could the TNG Tech Manual author seriously claim to know the function of an item better than the person who had actually created and put it there?
In dealing with fiction, this sounds perfectly plausible and practical.

OTOH, the same lot of people that wanted to give the saucer a deflector by appropriating a series of windows similar to those on the TOS saucer bow were later responsible for turning those TOS features into pretty explicit windows...

As regards the color, remember that we never saw the saucer at warp from a forward angle. The squares might be lit blue only when in use, with the golden glow matching the standby color we witnessed in the TOS movies.

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Old May 3 2014, 12:49 AM   #25
Tiberius
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I'd say it's the person that created the ship in all its details, unless "canonically" certain details were revisioned later on-screen which isn't the case here.

I mean, how could the TNG Tech Manual author seriously claim to know the function of an item better than the person who had actually created and put it there?

And IIRC ever since TMP, illuminated deflector "thingies" had a blue color, while windows or the like were usually featured with a white color.

Bob
Ah, but we're dealing with fiction here, not reality. According to the original designer of the D, she only has one tractor beam emitter as well. It's perfectly plausible that things change and are fluid on a fictional vehicle.
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Old May 4 2014, 04:30 AM   #26
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

If the E-D is indeed 642m long, how thick is the front of the saucer where Ten-Forward is supposed to be? Is there enough room for two decks there? One deck? Two full decks separated by Jeffries tube space?

Something else that also puzzles me. On the MSDs, the decks are something like nearly 4 meters tall. Why? A deck could just be 3 meters, or even slightly less. There don't HAVE to be Jeffries tubes EVERYWHERE. It's like there's a meter of free space over every ceiling on every deck, everywhere.
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Old May 4 2014, 11:24 PM   #27
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

^^ According to "Disaster" we get an insight of the turbo shaft and judging by the visible spacing between the doors on the various levels, there doesn't seem to be that much of space between individual decks.

Bob
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Old May 5 2014, 12:10 PM   #28
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

SicOne wrote: View Post
If the E-D is indeed 642m long, how thick is the front of the saucer where Ten-Forward is supposed to be? Is there enough room for two decks there? One deck? Two full decks separated by Jeffries tube space?

Something else that also puzzles me. On the MSDs, the decks are something like nearly 4 meters tall. Why? A deck could just be 3 meters, or even slightly less. There don't HAVE to be Jeffries tubes EVERYWHERE. It's like there's a meter of free space over every ceiling on every deck, everywhere.
Most Trek ships don't have enough room for the complex ceilings seen in the sets. In Mr. Scott's Guide and the old cutaway poster, the refit 1701/1701-A has 8' saucer decks, the height of the corridor ceilings, despite sets like sickbay being much taller. I prefer them to err on the side of caution and give too much space than too little.
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Old May 5 2014, 11:02 PM   #29
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Re: 10-Forward Enterprise(s) size(s) monkey wrench in debate?

That might be what's said in the text of Mr Scott, but the actual corridor diagrams show a complete deck height of 9'6" overall.
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