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Old April 30 2014, 03:59 PM   #181
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
Wonder what they did with Rasmussen's stolen time machine?
Nothing; it went back to its owner in the future at the end of the episode.
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Old April 30 2014, 05:21 PM   #182
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
I can come up with a list, but a beginning few would be ...

Lack of privacy, the hero crew can access personal information on anyone inside (and often outside) the Federation on a whim.
The fact that they are officials and (possibly) also law enforcement (they had to do this accessing of info on TOS to figure out who 'Leo Francis Walsh' really was) in the sector of the galaxy where they sometimes are doesn't seem to be apparent to you? It did to me. And one gets the feeling that they were just accessing that info on a need-to-know basis, because they needed to know.

The "you're no supposed to feel anything when someone dies," this was applied once to a child who lost his mother. This was already brought up in this thread.
Accepting death is something that people should be doing, and doing better (although the crying that Troi did when Tasha died and Data died shows that people do mourn, as did the crying of Captain Kirk in Into Darkness.)



The Prime Directive, especially as applied in the 24th century. Yes there is a chance they might screw it up, but a planet full of screwed up natives is better than a planet littered with corpses.
It's there for a good reason, as shown in 'A Piece of the Action' and a lot of other examples not shown on the series; I think that the story about this powerful alien from this comic book company illustrates why they have it.

The fact that Roddenberry had a problem with Code of Honor, there should have been many more planets of "dem black folks" and not none at all. there were way too many white people planets to start with.
Roddenberry had no business writing TV shows or showrunning again to begin with, IMHO; he was rusty at doing it, and it showed in the quality of the scripts and the way the characters were written, plus it also set a deadly precedent for Voyager, Enterprise, and (to a lesser extent) DS9 that was carried out by Berman & Braga. All that he should have done was come up with the concept, be given the 'created by' credit, and packed off after that. I'll also agree with you on that.

No gays on display, but plenty of heteros, at a certain point it ceases to be a co-incidence.

The question is, is how do you show this (and show it well enough to satisfy a lot of people) on an episode? Especially when said characters aren't the lead characters? It's easy for fans to say 'just do it', but actually executing it (especially in conservative religious fundamentalist North American society) isn't easy, as evidenced by the reaction to the Phase II episode 'Blood and Fire'. (Not to say it shouldn't be done; it should, but just sayin'.)

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; April 30 2014 at 06:17 PM.
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Old April 30 2014, 06:04 PM   #183
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post

It's there for a good reason, as shown in 'A Piece of the Action' and a lot of other examples not shown on the series; I think that the story this powerful alie from this comic book company illustrates why they have it.
Overall, I don't think even Gene knew whether or not complete non-interference was a good idea. I point to the episodes "Assignment: Earth", "For the World is Hollow..." and "The Paradise Syndrome", where interference was obviously a good thing.
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Old April 30 2014, 07:35 PM   #184
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Heck, I think Spock is truly a "gay" character if we look at him critically. Rejected by his father for his choices, trying to suppress part of who he is and finally finding acceptance for who he is.
That's an interesting way to approach the character. I don't think I've seen that voiced before. Nicely done!
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Old April 30 2014, 08:26 PM   #185
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Heck, I think Spock is truly a "gay" character if we look at him critically. Rejected by his father for his choices, trying to suppress part of who he is and finally finding acceptance for who he is.
That's an interesting way to approach the character. I don't think I've seen that voiced before. Nicely done!
Honestly, I don't know if it's something I came up with or if it's something I've picked up somewhere over the past thirty-odd years of being a fan.

It has been rattling around in my brain for a long time though.
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Old April 30 2014, 08:53 PM   #186
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

^

That being said, its not a bad idea to let it out for a little air now and again.
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Old April 30 2014, 09:21 PM   #187
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Phlox, a main character, was in a polygamous marriage. And in Data's Day it was intimated that Andorian marriages are composed of four individuals.
In "The Long Ladder" I think Picard talked mate sharing and multiple languages.


teacake wrote: View Post
mendelin wrote: View Post
2. In perfect future there is no place for suffering.
I think you are confusing Star Trek with heaven.

No one ever claimed Star Trek shows a perfect future, much less a perfect future without suffering. It's a very dangerous place if you're not living on earth. Certainly I am safer right here in my living room in crappy pre-warp earth than I would be on a starship from the amount of them that get blown up.

Star Trek shows a future that we hope science will take us to. Freedom from hunger and opportunities to rise above subsistence needs as humans, replacing them with higher pursuits. People still get sick and die, shuttles still crash, and even though (supposedly) humans on earth aren't raping and killing each other there's now a whole lot of other species eyeing off the pretties who have no qualms about making us suffer.
I think we may be talking about two types of human utopia--the spiritual/religious version, and the technological based one.

The spiritual version has it that by following a strict moral code 24 hours day, humans can achieve eliminate suffering and achieve Utopia. (There is some truth to this.)


Since Trek's version is more technological, humans aren't really needed to be perfect.

The truth is, discovering that there was life on other planets shocked the human ego into changing (according to trek).

And the resulting technological advancement eliminated greed, hunger, elitism, poverty, social class isms.

I think the two versions clash, because from the spiritual point of view, saying we'll achieve utopia by technology and science seems sacrilegious and arrogant.

The technological view is that by solving the problem, you eliminate suffering- That seems to be Trek's view as well.
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Old April 30 2014, 09:33 PM   #188
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

1001001 wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

I provide both quality and quantity.[...]
And then you proceed to NOT provide any actual arguments, but the usual list of fact-free dictums.
Well...I can't say I'm surprised.

Are you familiar with the mechanics and effects of religious indoctrination, J. Allen?
Okay gentlemen....

That's enough of that.

Thanks.

I'll be good. *crosses fingers*

BillJ wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post

It's there for a good reason, as shown in 'A Piece of the Action' and a lot of other examples not shown on the series; I think that the story this powerful alie from this comic book company illustrates why they have it.
Overall, I don't think even Gene knew whether or not complete non-interference was a good idea. I point to the episodes "Assignment: Earth", "For the World is Hollow..." and "The Paradise Syndrome", where interference was obviously a good thing.
The Prime Directive was always a sticky wicket for me, anyway. So they won't give technology to developing societies, I get that, but to let an entire planet full of people die off? Nah, I don't get that one. The excuse that "we don't know what might evolve later" is a piss poor one, IMO.
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Old April 30 2014, 09:34 PM   #189
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Heck, I think Spock is truly a "gay" character if we look at him critically. Rejected by his father for his choices, trying to suppress part of who he is and finally finding acceptance for who he is.
That's an interesting way to approach the character. I don't think I've seen that voiced before. Nicely done!
We already had that with forbidden mind melds and mind meld transmitted diseases.
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Old April 30 2014, 09:38 PM   #190
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Heck, I think Spock is truly a "gay" character if we look at him critically. Rejected by his father for his choices, trying to suppress part of who he is and finally finding acceptance for who he is.
That's an interesting way to approach the character. I don't think I've seen that voiced before. Nicely done!
We already had that with forbidden mind melds and mind meld transmitted diseases.
Except Spock preceded Enterprise by close to thirty-five years.
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Old April 30 2014, 10:12 PM   #191
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Retcon. That's never a fiery topic.
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Old April 30 2014, 10:42 PM   #192
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

mendelin wrote: View Post

Yes, because it's a way to nowhere. All this discussion is about our personal preferences. Some people find it funny or cool to watch gay relationships in TV-series and big-screen movies. Some people don't. That's all.
Why don't you try substituting "heterosexual relationships" or "interacial relationships" for "gay relationships" in your sentence.

Your "personal preference" is bigotry whether you realize it or not. How would you feel if you were gay and someone told you they don't want to see your kind of relationship on tv ever?
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Last edited by teacake; April 30 2014 at 10:59 PM.
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Old May 1 2014, 12:20 AM   #193
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Lack of privacy, the hero crew can access personal information on anyone inside (and often outside) the Federation on a whim.
The fact that they are officials and (possibly) also law enforcement ...
Neither officials nor law enforcement should ever be able to access information on anyone without legal cause.

Harry Mudd was in violation of a number of laws, and he was told he would have legal information for his defense, and the accessing of his information occurred at a formal hearing. This was the proper way of doing things.

Not just pull info up casually.

Accepting death is something that people should be doing ...
No, people shouldn't be expected to simply accept death, and placing such a expectation upon a young child is the sign of a twisted culture.

No gays on display, but plenty of heteros, at a certain point it ceases to be a co-incidence.
The question is, is how do you show this (and show it well enough to satisfy a lot of people) on an episode?
Exactly the same way you would with a hetero character.

One example, we learn in Mantrap that Uhura is hetero because when the salt vampire changes into someone Uhura would be attracted to, it becomes a handsome man.

Indicating that a character is gay would be as simple as that.


Last edited by Merry Christmas; May 1 2014 at 12:37 AM.
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Old May 1 2014, 12:30 AM   #194
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Remind me to keep the salt vampires at bay, just in case.
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Old May 1 2014, 12:32 AM   #195
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Re: Do you often wish that you were living in Star Trek now?

Exactly tgirl. Or as simple as the use of pronouns in referencing someone's partner.
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