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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 27 2014, 02:00 AM   #16
Grant
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

captainkirk wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Hopefully someday they will include it in a deleted scenes section.

What scene was this? When the Enterprise is entering Spacedock? Can you (or anyone) post a link to the dialogue from a script?
This is how it is in the script:

KIRK
I cut your new orders personally. By
the end of the month, you'll have your
first command: USS EXCELSIOR.

SULU
Thank you, sir. I've looked
forward to this for a long time.

KIRK
You've earned it. But I'm still
grateful to have you at the helm
for three weeks. I don't believe
these kids can steer.

I've never watched the scene so I don't know how similar it is.

^Yep that's from the script.

The way is was actually shot was a little different

Sulu: I'm delighted, any chance to go aboard the Enterprise, HOWEVER BRIEFLY IS ALWAYS AN EXCUSE FOR NOSTALGIA.

Kirk: WITH SPOCK IN COMMAND YOU DON'T THINK I'LL TURN ANYTHING UP, DO YOU?

Then cut to stock exterior footage.
Then back to shuttle interior.

Kirk: BY THE END OF THE MONTH YOU'LL HAVE YOUR FIRST COMMAND, USS EXCELSIOR

McCoy: OH CONGRATULATIONS COMMANDER!

Sulu: THANK YOU SIR, I'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT FOR A LONG TIME.

Kirk: Well I for one am glad to have you at the helm for three weeks--I don't think these kids can steer.

Deleted lines are in capitals.

Kirk's attitude in the entire scene is a little melancholy. He doesn't have his own ship--Spock has Enterprise--now Sulu has Excelsior and he's a little sad---a desk bound Admiral doing an inspection.

Takei thought that Shatner should have played it all excited for him. But that's not what Kirk is feeling at the moment in that portion of the movie.

That's why, I assume, they added the McCoy line where he (with no conflicting feelings about the subject of command) can happily congratulate Sulu.

Takei thought it was all about Shatner not wanting to play the scene 'happy' or 'enthusiastic' enough.

By the way, Sulu's line, "Thank you sir, I've been looking for that for a long time."-----is my ringtone from my wife's cell phone! LOL

That's the big cut scene--5 lines of dialogue comprising 15 seconds of screen time.

Last edited by Grant; April 27 2014 at 03:06 AM.
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Old April 27 2014, 02:09 AM   #17
Grant
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Double post.
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Old April 27 2014, 09:46 AM   #18
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Grant wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
This Excelsior was supposed to be Sulu's command in TWOK before the scene got cut due to Shatner's shitty acting.
That's a myth.

I (and others) have seen that scene on the workprint of the movie and Shatner's acting is not the reason the scene was cut. His acting in the portions of that scene that were cut and the portions that remain are the same. Plus McCoy's added line (that was not in the script) was really nicely played and showed genuine happiness at Sulu's promotionon his part.

Hopefully someday they will include it in a deleted scenes section.
Thanks for the clarification. I was going by what I've always heard about the scene, but the way you describe it makes more sense.
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Old April 27 2014, 03:27 PM   #19
Grant
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
This Excelsior was supposed to be Sulu's command in TWOK before the scene got cut due to Shatner's shitty acting.
That's a myth.

I (and others) have seen that scene on the workprint of the movie and Shatner's acting is not the reason the scene was cut. His acting in the portions of that scene that were cut and the portions that remain are the same. Plus McCoy's added line (that was not in the script) was really nicely played and showed genuine happiness at Sulu's promotionon his part.

Hopefully someday they will include it in a deleted scenes section.
Thanks for the clarification. I was going by what I've always heard about the scene, but the way you describe it makes more sense.
Sure, no problem.

If you're interested in other cut material, there's a thread in the original movies section about cut/alternate/deleted scenes with lots of photos and descriptions, that I bumped up because I was hoping to see if anybody had run across any new finds.
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Old April 27 2014, 11:13 PM   #20
Set Harth
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Here is some concept art from Star Trek: The Art of the Film
When I look at that I can't help thinking of how much larger the Mayflower looked right after Enterprise came out of warp.
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Old April 27 2014, 11:22 PM   #21
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Eh, it's just dramatic licence for an "OMG WE'RE GONNA CRASH!!" moment. It's the size from the chart when they leave spacedock.
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Old April 28 2014, 10:29 AM   #22
saddestmoon
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Leathco wrote: View Post
I haven't seen ANY discussion on this, but after many years of seeing Starfleet using mostly grey/silver ships, Into Darkness brought us a black one (heck, they may have used black earlier in Trek that I am not remembering) and a red one?

In the scene where the shuttlecraft ferrying Kirk and Spock back to Enterprise, you can see a three nacelled red ship in the lower left part of the screen.

So, why is it red when all other ships have shared the same color scheme? Is it an older ship from a different civilization? A special ops ship? Maybe a ship that has been operating in an environment to alter its hull color?





[Great Big Image placed behind thumbnail to alleviate horizontal stretching of page. Click on thumbnail to view larger image. - M']
Not to be that guy, buuuut... there was a thread started by myself on this topic: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=213985

Just thought it could be useful to link to it, in case it helped with this discussion.

Personally, I still find the mystery red ship fascinating...
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Old April 28 2014, 10:54 AM   #23
Timo
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Eh, it's just dramatic licence for an "OMG WE'RE GONNA CRASH!!" moment. It's the size from the chart when they leave spacedock.
There's the further issue that the giant piece of saucer they collide with is in a different orientation from the much smaller one they first spot. And no, there's no time for the saucer to rotate that way.

We could well be talking about two unrelated pieces of debris here, one from the smaller ship of unknown name that came from Earth, the other from the much larger Mayflower of some other design that was already at Vulcan and was destroyed by Nero some time before the others.

As for red ships, I rather like the idea of garish identification colors, strictly for use in times of war (which is why we never saw them in TOS or closely related spinoffs), and abandoned well before the TNG era.

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Old April 28 2014, 09:42 PM   #24
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

It occurred to me that it would just be unfair that Vulcans get a Starfleet vessel of their own with their cultural colors just because of the destruction of their homeworld. By 2259 in the Abramsverse there's got to be dozens of Federation species. Lots of them have suffered various cataclysms at some point. So Vulcans only have a uniquely colored starship? No. Plus Vulcans don't show their emotions and have no need for pity.

On the other hand, I think I would accept it if the next movie had blue-hulled Starfleet vessels and a good explanation for them.
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Old April 29 2014, 02:40 PM   #25
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Well, IMO the colour is simply the result of Vulcan metals being used and not paint. No more special than the ENT-era Vulcan ships being red (and in fact nice continuity)
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Old April 29 2014, 10:05 PM   #26
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

A diplomatic vessel, perhaps (thinking of the cruiser in Phantom Menace.)
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Old April 30 2014, 03:28 AM   #27
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

saddestmoon wrote: View Post
Leathco wrote: View Post
I haven't seen ANY discussion on this, but after many years of seeing Starfleet using mostly grey/silver ships, Into Darkness brought us a black one (heck, they may have used black earlier in Trek that I am not remembering) and a red one?

In the scene where the shuttlecraft ferrying Kirk and Spock back to Enterprise, you can see a three nacelled red ship in the lower left part of the screen.

So, why is it red when all other ships have shared the same color scheme? Is it an older ship from a different civilization? A special ops ship? Maybe a ship that has been operating in an environment to alter its hull color?





[Great Big Image placed behind thumbnail to alleviate horizontal stretching of page. Click on thumbnail to view larger image. - M']
Not to be that guy, buuuut... there was a thread started by myself on this topic: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=213985

Just thought it could be useful to link to it, in case it helped with this discussion.

Personally, I still find the mystery red ship fascinating...
That means this is the 3rd thread on this subject. I posted a link in another thread, memory-alpha's entry on the Armstrong, which mentions a "brown hull variant" to the class.

ETA: here it is - http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...ght=brown+hull

Now I too am "that guy"
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Old April 30 2014, 07:17 AM   #28
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Here's one idea:

The recent Enterprise: Rise of the Federation novels by TrekBBS's very own Christopher have established that the early Federation Starfleet was formed by amalgamating the existing space forces of the Federation's founding Member States, and making them each divisions of the larger Federation Starfleet:

- United Earth Space Probe Agency (formerly known as United Earth Starfleet, renamed for clarity), specializing in exploration
- Vulcan Space Council, specializing in scientific research
- Andorian Guard, specializing in defense
- Tellar Space Administration, specializing in operation support and supply
- Alpha Centauri Space Research Council, specializing in planetary research and funding

The implication in these books being that these early divisions of the Federation Starfleet persisted long after the Federation had become culturally and legally unified enough that the early planetary names ceased being meaningful from the perspective of either crew makeup, operational ethos, or general political allegiance. Hence why the Enterprise in TOS was said to be part of UESPA.

So, using this, my pet theory for the red starship is this:

Maybe the Armstrong (I'm just going to call it that for the sake of this post) is part of the Vulcan Space Council division of the Federation Starfleet, and was therefore, as King Daniel into Darkness postulates, constructed from metals available in the Vulcan system as a result.

My further hypothesis:

Maybe part of the reason the Constitution class in the Alternate Timeline looks different is that it was designed to place more operational emphasis on defense? Perhaps the Alternate Universe USS Enterprise is actually part of the Andorian Guard division of the Federation Starfleet instead of the UESPA division.
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Old April 30 2014, 03:42 PM   #29
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Sci wrote: View Post
Perhaps the Alternate Universe USS Enterprise is actually part of the Andorian Guard division of the Federation Starfleet instead of the UESPA division.
If we'd actually seen any Andorians on board, I might consider it.
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Old April 30 2014, 07:10 PM   #30
Sci
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Re: The Red Federation ship in Into Darkness

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Perhaps the Alternate Universe USS Enterprise is actually part of the Andorian Guard division of the Federation Starfleet instead of the UESPA division.
If we'd actually seen any Andorians on board, I might consider it.
Ah, but by the 2250s, these old divisions may be more organizational differences than reflections of actual crew complements.
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