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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old April 10 2014, 06:20 PM   #451
TerryMcIntosh
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

andriech wrote: View Post
TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...one woman was so overwhelmed by trying to buck that system that she went insane.

So, unless you tell me that this "strong female Star Fleet captain" is actually a complete emotional wreck and incompetent screw-up that, you know, made Star Fleet rule "no more women in the command seat!" - it just comes off as fan wankery...which, personally, makes me lose respect for any project...because when you see it once from producers, it's a fair bet you'll see it a lot.

Just my personal opinion.
And Enterprise retconned any thought of that with the Columbia (NX-02), and her captain Erika Hernandez. The misogyny of the late 1960's can be as easily dismissed as the budget crisis of the production, such as dying a dog pink, gluing a horn to its fur, and calling it an alien in TOS. The times change, and real world prejudices of the time period that reflect in the production can easily be dismissed with a dash of common sense.
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Old April 10 2014, 06:52 PM   #452
Noname Given
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

andriech wrote: View Post
TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...one woman was so overwhelmed by trying to buck that system that she went insane.

So, unless you tell me that this "strong female Star Fleet captain" is actually a complete emotional wreck and incompetent screw-up that, you know, made Star Fleet rule "no more women in the command seat!" - it just comes off as fan wankery...which, personally, makes me lose respect for any project...because when you see it once from producers, it's a fair bet you'll see it a lot.

Just my personal opinion.
TOS had ONE exchange that vaguely hinted women might not be allowed to be starship Captains in the episode 'Turnabout Intruder'.

Janice Lester: ...Your world of Starship Captains doesn't admit women. It's not fair..."

James T. Kirk: "No, it isn't..."

HOWEVER - it's pretty clear janice lester was nuts; and further, that she and Kirk had argued the situation before, and Kirk's response in the episode might have just been to placate Lester, and avoid another argument/outburst. IMO - it's just as likely janice lester failed her Psych evaluation, but saw that as an excuse for Star Fleet denying her a command.

Given what was shown in the original TOS Pilot episode "The Cage"; where the female character 'Number One' is the First Officer, and Pike's second in command (and she does in fact assume command when Pike is captured) - it leads me to think that Janice Lester's comment is just one of a bitter woman who was denied command for a valid reason; and not an indication the women are bared from Starship command in the 23rd century era; either before of after Pike's time.
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Old April 10 2014, 08:40 PM   #453
trekkieb47
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Psion wrote: View Post
Ronald Held wrote: View Post
The problem with that method of dissemination is that everyone is not on Facebook.
Ditto. You're excluding a portion of your audience just to put money in Facebook's purse.
While Facebook might not be everyone's cup of tea, a lot of people use it. Axanar also has a forum: http://startrekaxanar.invisionzone.com/
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Old April 10 2014, 08:45 PM   #454
diriel
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

There have definitely been women star ship captains in Trek Cannon.

Dropping out of TREK for a moment... In the here and now:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...h-west-3016527

Last edited by diriel; April 10 2014 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Add link
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Old April 11 2014, 12:36 AM   #455
AlexR
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Certainly canonical Trek has dispensed long ago with the idea that women cannot command starships, and as a number of folks here have already pointed out, even the dialogue in "Turnabout Intruder" is easily interpretable as Janice Lester's hangups, not anything resembling "official StarFleet policy".

Beyond the canonical, licensed Trek had been featuring female COs for a long time, too. One of my favorites is CAPT Nechama Rabin, first CO of the USS Farragut.

So am I bothered by Kate Vernon's character in "Axanar"? Not at all. In fact, I'm hugely looking forward to seeing it, and her. I've been interacting with some of the folks working on putting "Axanar" together, and while I'm way out on the periphery of that group, one thing is abundantly clear. The people who have spearheaded this project LOVE Star Trek, and will do their level best to make what's on the screen worth watching, not just as Star Trek, but as a movie, too.

They have my support and enthusiasm, at least!

Best,
Alex
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Old April 11 2014, 01:21 AM   #456
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

There was very little, if any, subtext in Turnabout Intruder. It was all spelled out. Janice Lester was batcrap insane. She couldn't have Jim Kirk, so she decided to become Jim Kirk.

The throwaway line about women captains was just that. Throwaway. Kirk's "temperament or training" line had nothing to do with keeping women ""in their place." It only meant what he said. Janice Lester was not fit to be a starship captain because she did not have the temperament or training. Whether other females could qualify was never in question.

The last line ending with "if only" just means that if she wasn't completely full goose bozo she might have had a full, rich life. But because she wasn't qualified or capable, she blamed the man who left her and drove herself to madness and murder.

Seriously, people try to read too much between the lines. There aren't that many lines to read between.
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Old April 11 2014, 01:24 AM   #457
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

^ Well, I'm on board with CorporalCaptain's analysis of the episode itself, but the basic takeaway is that no matter what the episode said or didn't say, no current-day director ought to feel all that bound by it.
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Old April 11 2014, 01:28 AM   #458
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

BigJake wrote: View Post
^ Well, I'm on board with CorporalCaptain's analysis of the episode itself, but the basic takeaway is that no matter what the episode said or didn't say, no current-day director ought to feel all that bound by it.
We don't disagree on that last part.
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Old April 13 2014, 02:04 AM   #459
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

[QUOTE=andriech;9462064]
Loken wrote: View Post
...
TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...
You mean when the bat-shit insane woman stated such?

Do people always believe things bat-shit insane people claim?
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Old April 13 2014, 07:06 AM   #460
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

In the Starfleet meeting room in STID there was a woman with captain's rank stripes and another with commander's. So while that's a different universe it is the 23rd century. Also there was the captain of the Saratoga in TVH. I think it's a non-issue.
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Old April 18 2014, 12:45 AM   #461
Today
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

[QUOTE=nightwind1;9470467]
andriech wrote: View Post
Loken wrote: View Post
...
TOS made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that women are not allowed to be captains in Star Fleet...
You mean when the bat-shit insane woman stated such?

Do people always believe things bat-shit insane people claim?
Well, now there's a loaded question to ask on the internet.
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Old April 24 2014, 10:51 PM   #462
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

I understand that there may have been women captains in ENT, and later in the timeline. I was referring to the TOS era specifically. Yes, you can claim in retrovision that it was only because Lester was unbalanced, and that it was just because of the 60s USA view...but, first, Kirk did agree with her during the episode. But, mostly, I personally would prefer an explanation of why this particular rule came about and why it changed...rather than just to ignore this inconvenient truth. There's a pretty strong story there waiting to be told.

On another note...Axanar posted this on FaceBook on April 15th.

'Thanks to James Cawley, TOS costumer extraordinaire and Star Trek: Phase II Executive Producer, who has supplied the Axanar team with the parts needed for The Cage era tunics we will be using for "Prelude to Axanar". James sent us all of the tunics he had and the supplies to make more for free. Because he is that kind of guy. Thanks James!"

This is just the kind of cooperation that should be happening between fanfilms - and James has always been leading the way on that front. It's what makes the fanfilm community strong and will ultimately see to it that it endures - no matter which fanfilms come and go.

Acknowledging this cooperation, in my opinion, is an important part of the building blocks to a strong fanfilm community. Secret Voyage did a great job in that respect. Some day I hope to see James' and Greg's name on the credits for Ajax, and James and mine on the credits for Axanar. (I made all the Cage Era tunics that James gave Axanar for the Phase II episode "The Protracted Man" (origins). James dyed the collars.)

Again, I think this kind of acknowledgement builds a strong community - giving people the sense that, yes, we are all in this together.
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Old April 25 2014, 12:01 AM   #463
Danlav05
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

andriech wrote: View Post
I understand that there may have been women captains in ENT, and later in the timeline. I was referring to the TOS era specifically. Yes, you can claim in retrovision that it was only because Lester was unbalanced, and that it was just because of the 60s USA view...but, first, Kirk did agree with her during the episode. But, mostly, I personally would prefer an explanation of why this particular rule came about and why it changed...rather than just to ignore this inconvenient truth. There's a pretty strong story there waiting to be told.

On another note...Axanar posted this on FaceBook on April 15th.

'Thanks to James Cawley, TOS costumer extraordinaire and Star Trek: Phase II Executive Producer, who has supplied the Axanar team with the parts needed for The Cage era tunics we will be using for "Prelude to Axanar". James sent us all of the tunics he had and the supplies to make more for free. Because he is that kind of guy. Thanks James!"

This is just the kind of cooperation that should be happening between fanfilms - and James has always been leading the way on that front. It's what makes the fanfilm community strong and will ultimately see to it that it endures - no matter which fanfilms come and go.

Acknowledging this cooperation, in my opinion, is an important part of the building blocks to a strong fanfilm community. Secret Voyage did a great job in that respect. Some day I hope to see James' and Greg's name on the credits for Ajax, and James and mine on the credits for Axanar. (I made all the Cage Era tunics that James gave Axanar for the Phase II episode "The Protracted Man" (origins). James dyed the collars.)

Again, I think this kind of acknowledgement builds a strong community - giving people the sense that, yes, we are all in this together.
This community has been going on since 2005 and although there has been a dip I love how the cross-pollination is resurfacing:

- Nick Cook has worked on Hidden Frontier/Phase II [the former with other Intrepid members - ironic that the first full-blown crossover is Transatlantic!!)
- Hidden Frontier's John Whiting and New Voyages' James Cawley have appeared in each others' shows with other members
- Farragut used to film on the Phase II sets before getting their own studio
- HF's Knapp appeared on Dark Armada
- Axanar have a lot of Fanfilm veterans onboard as does Renegades

There have been so any more and I'm glad that rather than rival many choose to help one another make that Star Trek tapestry ever bigger. Long may it continue.
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Old April 25 2014, 06:48 PM   #464
Ronald Held
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

In principal cross pollination should make all productions better.
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Old April 25 2014, 08:34 PM   #465
diriel
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Re: Star Trek: Axanar

Honestly, I wish some of these projects would come together and make a fresh new fan series. I would not even be overly picky about which one! Although I will admit the one that had the Romulan 2nd officer was kinda cool.
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