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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 23 2014, 10:34 PM   #16
Mark_Nguyen
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Or for all we knew, early technology transfers from the Romulans had the Klingon Empire experimenting with singularities as a power source. And we ALL know how that ALWAYS turns out.

Mark
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Old April 24 2014, 02:35 AM   #17
trevanian
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Captrek wrote: View Post
SimpleLogic wrote: View Post
I just started rereading The Genesis Wave and in it is a report that makes the connection that the Klingons started overmining in response to the Genesis incident. I mean from their point of view there is this torpedo than can remake planets so in turn they start overproducing everything in preparation for war. I had never really linked the two but it does make some sense since we saw how outraged the Klingon Ambassador was over it.

Anyone else think it is a good explanation for the moon exploding?
It reminds me of the theory that the Soviet Union collapsed because of the expense of the arms race. I think the theory is more an excuse to credit the event to Reagan than something based on reality.
I've often thought the same; if they were in such dire financial straits, why would they spend money building that looney near-duplicate space shuttle of theirs?

The only thing I credit Reagan with is his role in THE KILLERS (the 60s remake) and for giving me a really bad decade when I was probably as convinced as Nick Meyer that we weren't going to make it out of the 20th century without looking like glow-pops.
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Old April 24 2014, 06:49 AM   #18
JarodRussell
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Mark_Nguyen wrote: View Post
Or for all we knew, early technology transfers from the Romulans had the Klingon Empire experimenting with singularities as a power source. And we ALL know how that ALWAYS turns out.

Mark
But those are sucky, not blowy.
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Old April 24 2014, 10:15 AM   #19
HIjol
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Timo wrote: View Post
The same way 9/11 could have happened at any time?

Chernobyl was "a disaster waiting to happen" only in the same sense that the World Trade Center was. I mean, skyscrapers? Ooh, inherently deadly! But beyond that, it would take malice or idiocy to wring a disaster out of those, or out of Chernobyl, which was a relatively nicely and safely working atomic plant with plenty of failsafes to compensate for certain well-known risks in the design. Nothing could compensate for people who shut down failsafe after failsafe for the heck of it, though.

"Overmining" sounds like a very specific act of stupidity, but it's difficult to see how it would lead to an explosion as such. Work pressures and other indirect effects from lots and lots of mining would of course make an accident more likely to happen - but this tells us nothing about the nature of that accident. What could explode with such a force in a mine?

Well, any fictional substance X might blow up if hit the wrong way with a pickaxe or a mining phaser, I guess. But why would that be the result of "overmining" specifically? I do think some fairly complicated explanation is needed there.

(But no, my exploration of the alternate meaning of "mining" wasn't expected to be a serious explanation...)

Timo Saloniemi
...hmmm...just supposing out lou-...no, nonono...no way...well, hell, you did not happen to notice if a guy named Harry Stamper was listed on any worker or consultant manifests for work authorized on Praxis?...
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Old April 24 2014, 10:27 AM   #20
HIjol
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Captrek wrote: View Post
SimpleLogic wrote: View Post
I just started rereading The Genesis Wave and in it is a report that makes the connection that the Klingons started overmining in response to the Genesis incident. I mean from their point of view there is this torpedo than can remake planets so in turn they start overproducing everything in preparation for war. I had never really linked the two but it does make some sense since we saw how outraged the Klingon Ambassador was over it.

Anyone else think it is a good explanation for the moon exploding?
It reminds me of the theory that the Soviet Union collapsed because of the expense of the arms race. I think the theory is more an excuse to credit the event to Reagan than something based on reality.


...but, it was the reason...

"During the second part of the 1980s, the Soviet economy was teetering towards collapse and was unable to match American arms spending"
Cold War: A Brief History
Reagan's Star Wars
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Old April 24 2014, 10:29 AM   #21
HIjol
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Mark_Nguyen wrote: View Post
Or for all we knew, early technology transfers from the Romulans had the Klingon Empire experimenting with singularities as a power source. And we ALL know how that ALWAYS turns out.

Mark
...too right...it's the little things...
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Old April 24 2014, 07:09 PM   #22
cardinal biggles
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Melakon wrote: View Post
I know I haven't had enough caffeine yet this morning, because it occurs to me Praxis would be a good name for a car. "The 2015 Toyota Praxis. For the excitement you crave."
Ralph Nader wants a word with them.
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Old April 24 2014, 08:26 PM   #23
Dr. Sevrin
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
I know I haven't had enough caffeine yet this morning, because it occurs to me Praxis would be a good name for a car. "The 2015 Toyota Praxis. For the excitement you crave."
Ralph Nader wants a word with them.
I'm still disappointed I couldn't think of a better slogan, because I used to write ad copy.
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Old April 24 2014, 08:58 PM   #24
Trek or Treat!
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

HIjol wrote: View Post
Captrek wrote: View Post
SimpleLogic wrote: View Post
I just started rereading The Genesis Wave and in it is a report that makes the connection that the Klingons started overmining in response to the Genesis incident. I mean from their point of view there is this torpedo than can remake planets so in turn they start overproducing everything in preparation for war. I had never really linked the two but it does make some sense since we saw how outraged the Klingon Ambassador was over it.

Anyone else think it is a good explanation for the moon exploding?
It reminds me of the theory that the Soviet Union collapsed because of the expense of the arms race. I think the theory is more an excuse to credit the event to Reagan than something based on reality.


...but, it was the reason...

"During the second part of the 1980s, the Soviet economy was teetering towards collapse and was unable to match American arms spending"
Cold War: A Brief History
Reagan's Star Wars
...and therefore SDI is the reason the Soviet economy was teetering towards collapse?

All you have established is that both things happened. Your interpretation of the causal relationship between the events strikes me as wishful thinking.
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Old April 24 2014, 09:24 PM   #25
Shat Happens
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Mytran wrote: View Post
You mean how only a tiny fragment of Praxis is left? Or did you mean the graphics surrounding it? If so, didn't you know that graphics in the future will suck?
I meant the painting-like, still-but-supposed-to-be-realtime, exageratedly-destroyed rear-projected-instead-of-composited-therefore-white-washed image of Praxis.
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Old April 24 2014, 10:03 PM   #26
Trek or Treat!
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
You mean how only a tiny fragment of Praxis is left? Or did you mean the graphics surrounding it? If so, didn't you know that graphics in the future will suck?
I meant the painting-like, still-but-supposed-to-be-realtime, exageratedly-destroyed rear-projected-instead-of-composited-therefore-white-washed image of Praxis.
I think you're working from the intuition of the Excelsior having a really powerful optical telescope pointed at Praxis. Let's assume that at the distances involved, that isn't possible.

Imagine instead that the ship computer uses readings from subspace sensors, spectrographs, gravity waves, and a whole bunch of treknobabble to get the most possible information about what is happening at Praxis and create a visual representation of it. A sharper image would create the illusion of more information than is actually available.
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Old April 25 2014, 01:09 AM   #27
Egger
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
We don't really know what they were mining or how. For all we know they could have been drilling for oil all the way down to the moon's core. Maybe they hit a pocket of something that erupted and blew the planet straight to hell.
Oil? Reminds me of this:

http://www.ditl.org/captioncomp-prev...?CaptionID=363
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Old April 25 2014, 05:21 AM   #28
HIjol
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Melakon wrote: View Post
cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
I know I haven't had enough caffeine yet this morning, because it occurs to me Praxis would be a good name for a car. "The 2015 Toyota Praxis. For the excitement you crave."
Ralph Nader wants a word with them.
I'm still disappointed I couldn't think of a better slogan, because I used to write ad copy.

...as your newly (self) appointed Advertising Intern, please allow me to submit this for your consideration:

You live on Qo'noS...you are an Energetic Warrior
Where do you get that which feeds your Warrior Self?
Praxis
Your Moon
Your Source
Let the 2369 Toyota Praxis "Moon XL"
Take you to that Inner Place of Warrior Energy


(Disclaimer: The Praxis has been shown to explode in some cases)

Perhaps today IS a good day to die...
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Old April 25 2014, 10:32 AM   #29
anh165
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
You mean how only a tiny fragment of Praxis is left? Or did you mean the graphics surrounding it? If so, didn't you know that graphics in the future will suck?
I meant the painting-like, still-but-supposed-to-be-realtime, exageratedly-destroyed rear-projected-instead-of-composited-therefore-white-washed image of Praxis.

I personally think the mere nearby presence of the Excelsior with Sulu in command overwhelmed the little moon by its sheer awesomeness (by 23rd century prime-universe standards).

The Klingons then realised how dangerous the Excelsior & Sulu combo really was and forced them into starting the so called peace process to save their skins.
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Old April 25 2014, 03:23 PM   #30
trevanian
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Re: Was Praxis a result of Genesis?

Captrek wrote: View Post
HIjol wrote: View Post
Captrek wrote: View Post

It reminds me of the theory that the Soviet Union collapsed because of the expense of the arms race. I think the theory is more an excuse to credit the event to Reagan than something based on reality.


...but, it was the reason...

"During the second part of the 1980s, the Soviet economy was teetering towards collapse and was unable to match American arms spending"
Cold War: A Brief History
Reagan's Star Wars
...and therefore SDI is the reason the Soviet economy was teetering towards collapse?

All you have established is that both things happened. Your interpretation of the causal relationship between the events strikes me as wishful thinking.
There's been tons of back&forth on this down through the years. Jerry Pournelle consulted with that admin about all the High Frontier stuff, and was serious about all that ABM laser stuff, like Ben Bova, but after the fact folks made it sound like it was all blue-sky stuff designed to con the Soviets into thinking we were almost there and that they spent themselves broke trying to match us.

I've never really bought into the 'it's all a fake' approach, because I've always believed the tech IS achievable (might already have been achieved on a modest level in secret, either with X-ray lasers or some other particle beam system), but the story is certainly a nice way for the gov't to justify expenditures without having to justify practical results ... considering this was maybe the most important issue of the era (still should be, given that more than one party has missiles) outside of chemical/germ warfare threats, the way they just dismissed the whole thing as a ploy has always bothered me.
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