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Old April 21 2014, 04:25 PM   #541
AgentCoop
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Last night's episode was probably the least engaging for me so far, but it was arguably the most important. I'm already part of the choir that they're preaching to, but I can easily put myself in the position of a young science nerd who is just discovering that science is not above being sullied by corporate interests. So, bravo.

As far as creationists are concerned? The more shots they can take at them the better. I've no time for ignorance.
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Old April 21 2014, 06:11 PM   #542
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

They could just as easily have portrayed the lead debate as one of a maverick overthrowing the scientific consensus that the levels of environmental lead posed no significant threat, which is why all the scientists at the time happily drove around in cars powered by leaded gasoline. In WW-II we put so much lead in the gas that the sides of combat aircraft near the exhaust stacks were coated with metallic lead, and none of the government scientists batted an eye. Indeed, leaded gasoline is still widely used for aviation because the world is filled with aircraft engines that can't run on unleaded fuel.

Did the show happen to mention that because we removed lead from gasoline, we went back to adding toxic and carcinogenic benzene to it? (Benzene causes leukemia, spina bifida, etc.) Back in 1948 the American Petroleum Institute said the safe level of benzene in gasoline was zero. Now gasoline is chock full of the stuff (about 2%), and my house mate who is working an 8,200 gallon tanker truck spill into a delicate cave ecosystem is tracking the benzene levels in the groundwater as a tracer for where the gasoline went. One gallon of gasoline has enough added benzene to make four million gallons of water unsafe for drinking according to the EPA's 5 ppb exposure limit.
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Old April 21 2014, 10:54 PM   #543
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I don't really see a jab at Creationists, other than that these are facts about the Earth's origins, and they don't like them.
I thought there was a malevolent grin on his face when he declared that the day the earth began was a Saturday.
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Old April 21 2014, 11:19 PM   #544
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Pingfah wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
I don't really see a jab at Creationists, other than that these are facts about the Earth's origins, and they don't like them.
I thought there was a malevolent grin on his face when he declared that the day the earth began was a Saturday.
I had this discussion with my girlfriend last night right after he said that. The concept of a 6000 year old Earth is even more ridiculous when you look at it in this context: As someone who believes in God, isn't it much more AMAZING that God, who is limitless and omnipresent, spent billions of years making his vision of Earth as perfect as it could possibly be? That he wanted every single detail to be perfect, so he spent his time completely micromanaging evolution until it was exactly what he wanted. That God is the ultimate artist, and Earth was his masterpiece.

I don't even have a problem with a Creationist saying that it wasn't until that specific Saturday in 4000BC when God was finally able to look at the Earth he had just spent 4 billion years creating, and finally saying "It is good." But to think that the Earth simply didn't exist before that point is ludicrous.
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Old April 22 2014, 01:04 AM   #545
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Why would God create the Earth on a day named after Saturn, the Roman god of time?
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Old April 22 2014, 01:06 AM   #546
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

^ Probably because the name Saturday wouldn't arise for another few centuries.
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Old April 22 2014, 01:10 AM   #547
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Pingfah wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
I don't really see a jab at Creationists, other than that these are facts about the Earth's origins, and they don't like them.
I thought there was a malevolent grin on his face when he declared that the day the earth began was a Saturday.
There might have been, I just think he's adorable, so I takes what I can gets.

tighr wrote: View Post
Pingfah wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
I don't really see a jab at Creationists, other than that these are facts about the Earth's origins, and they don't like them.
I thought there was a malevolent grin on his face when he declared that the day the earth began was a Saturday.
I had this discussion with my girlfriend last night right after he said that. The concept of a 6000 year old Earth is even more ridiculous when you look at it in this context: As someone who believes in God, isn't it much more AMAZING that God, who is limitless and omnipresent, spent billions of years making his vision of Earth as perfect as it could possibly be? That he wanted every single detail to be perfect, so he spent his time completely micromanaging evolution until it was exactly what he wanted. That God is the ultimate artist, and Earth was his masterpiece.

I don't even have a problem with a Creationist saying that it wasn't until that specific Saturday in 4000BC when God was finally able to look at the Earth he had just spent 4 billion years creating, and finally saying "It is good." But to think that the Earth simply didn't exist before that point is ludicrous.
It is ludicrous, just like Creationism, and like that horrid theology wrapped in pseudo-science, requires no thought or consideration, just a willing mouthpiece with nothing better to do than bleat on and on.
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Old April 22 2014, 01:12 AM   #548
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

But God, being all knowing, would've known that he was creating the Earth on a Saturday, especially since days of the week are eternal and divine (Mankind wasn't granted the ability to create a day of the week, they just are).
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Old April 23 2014, 05:43 PM   #549
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

gturner wrote: View Post
But God, being all knowing, would've known that he was creating the Earth on a Saturday, especially since days of the week are eternal and divine (Mankind wasn't granted the ability to create a day of the week, they just are).
Days just are, but the concept of a week did not exist until men created the concept of a calendar, named the days and parceled a specific number of them together, for the express purpose of keeping track of the days that "just are." The argument is not that God knew which day he created the Earth, because an eternal, omniscient, omnipresent spirit likely doesn't give a shit what name lowly creatures that need calendars assign to the day he saw that "It was good."

Six days four millenia ago or 4 billion years ago, It's just still good.
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Old April 23 2014, 07:23 PM   #550
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

So you really think that man invented Mondays? Balderdash. If man invented the days then every day would be Saturday.
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Old April 23 2014, 09:20 PM   #551
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

tighr wrote: View Post
I don't even have a problem with a Creationist saying that it wasn't until that specific Saturday in 4000BC when God was finally able to look at the Earth he had just spent 4 billion years creating, and finally saying "It is good." But to think that the Earth simply didn't exist before that point is ludicrous.
As was already pointed out in an earlier episode of Cosmos, were the universe only six thousand years old, we would only be able to see 6000 light years distance -- just a small portion of our corner of the galaxy.
gturner wrote: View Post
But God, being all knowing, would've known that he was creating the Earth on a Saturday, especially since days of the week are eternal and divine (Mankind wasn't granted the ability to create a day of the week, they just are).
But names for things are thought up by people. Are you being facetious (in which case i'll admit to taking the bait), or do you really think the name "Saturday" exists in the air entirely independent of human thought?
gturner wrote: View Post
I think the gross misperception is part of the "science versus evil religion" thing that Cosmos stirred up.
As Joseph Campbell has rightly pointed out, there's no conflict at all between science and religion; the conflict is between the science of today and the science of several millennia ago which certain people want to cling to.
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Old April 23 2014, 09:55 PM   #552
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

It's the Creationists who've stirred up the fiction that science is inimical to religion. Cosmos has been showing all along that many great scientists were deeply religious, that they were inspired to seek scientific truth by their desire to understand God's design. It's showing that the embrace of science can be a deeply spiritual thing. So you've got it completely backward, gturner.

See, one of the big lies of the Creationists is that opposing Creationism is the same thing as opposing religion. In fact, Creationism is terrible religion. It's totally inimical to true religious faith and spirituality, because it's about pretending that the Bible is nothing more than a textbook, that the only meaning it possesses is the superficial, literal meaning of the words, that it couldn't possibly be a collection of metaphors and allegories for something more abstract. And because it's about telling people that they're not allowed to ask questions about the universe, that they have to blindly follow authority and are forbidden to seek to understand God in any way except the narrow way that Creationists tell them to. Creationism misunderstands religion as profoundly as it misunderstands science.
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Old April 23 2014, 10:08 PM   #553
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

It's kind of ironic that the God of the scientists is vastly more powerful and amazing than the God of the Creationists. Creationist-God is actually not that powerful of a guy.
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Old April 23 2014, 10:46 PM   #554
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Yeah -- a universe that runs smoothly on its own inbuilt rules for 14 billion years is vastly more impressive than a universe that's only been around 6000 years, is incapable of change and growth, and needs to be micromanaged at every stage.
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Old April 23 2014, 11:23 PM   #555
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Re: Cosmos - With Neil deGrasse Tyson

Dennis wrote: View Post
To the extent that this series is associated in the public mind with Carl Sagan, it's doing some coasting on his "brand."
I don't know to what extent that really is.
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