RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 146,412
Posts: 5,769,738
Members: 25,948
Currently online: 551
Newest member: BSV

TrekToday headlines

Trekonomics Book
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Shore Leave 37 Convention
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Two New ThinkGeek Trek-themed Items
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2

July-August 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2

Pegg: Star Trek Beyond Scary
By: T'Bonz on Jul 2

San Diego Comic-Con Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 1

Nimoy Memories From Friends and Family
By: T'Bonz on Jul 1

Stewart: It’s in My Genes
By: T'Bonz on Jun 30

Star Trek Beyond
By: T'Bonz on Jun 30

Trek-themed Car Accessories
By: T'Bonz on Jun 29


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 21 2014, 04:40 PM   #1
Khan 2.0
Captain
 
Khan 2.0's Avatar
 
Location: earth...but when?...spock?
Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

If you look at TFF as a strange dream of Kirks...from the first campsite scene post mountain fall to right at the end of the film with the 'Row Row Row your boat' reprise..then its possible that Trek V is actually a Shatnerian masterpiece of modern day cinema like a Blade Runner or Inception

Consider:

- The events of the movie are a reflection of Kirk's fears: being put back into action while he's unprepared, geting screwed by Starfleet, losing his crew and losing, above all, his friends.

- Events/discussions from the camping trip are mirrored/manifested in the dream: climbing El Capitan/climbing the mountain at the end...the fall from El Capitan/the fall from the turbo shaft...musing around the campfire/musing around the steering wheel....Kirks fear of dying alone/being alone on an uncharted planet with a Godlike alien that wants to kill him.

- The broken and unreliable Enterprise is another fear of Kirk; that no ship can live up to the original.

- The movie follows dream logic: characters appear when needed (rocket booted Spock in the turboshaft, Scotty in the brig, Spock in the BoP) and reality 'warps' to accomodate the story (70+ decks, the mysterious wheel room, unicorns, sybok, God)

- Kirk ate gods for breakfast, so its no surprise they show up in his dreams. The fight against God' is Kirks subconscious idea of a generic adventure. Likewise, a Klingon is his idea of a generic villain. Also the whole fake God thing can be interpreted as Kirk's own atheist belief that there is no higher power.

- Spock having a brother which was never mentioned before.

- The romantic relationship between Scotty and Uhura.

- A 30 year plus impossible journey to the centre of the galaxy that happens in a few hours.

-the whole Sybok healing everyones pain and the fact that Kirk, Spock and Bones could see each other's illusionary flashbacks.

- the song 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat' ends with the line 'life is but a dream'

- when going through the great barrier and the 3 are in the mysterious wheel room Bones asks 'are we dreaming?' and Kirk goes 'if we are..then life is a dream'

- Being chased by a floating God head which shoots lightning bolts from it's eyes would have had a very nightmare like quality to it

-The Klingons coming to Kirk's rescue is Kirk's subconcious trying to forgive the Klingon's for the death of his son.

- In the end, Spocks saves his ass, just like he saved Spocks.

- Kirk, Spock and Bones remain together for much of the movie..just like at the campsite..

- And of course the story starting and ending in the same spot, with the Kirk, Spock and McCoy wearing the same clothes.

When you look at the movie as a nightmare, a reflection of Kirks subconscious fears and desires, it actually, somehow, makes *more* sense. In fact, it starts making a *lot* of sense ..

When people finally realise this what Shatner did its going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever....just like was Deckard a Replicant? did the totem fall?

Last edited by Khan 2.0; April 21 2014 at 10:35 PM.
Khan 2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 04:59 PM   #2
Kevman7987
Captain
 
Kevman7987's Avatar
 
Location: Erie, PA, USA
View Kevman7987's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Just, wow...

Two things;

1. I thought the answer to both the Blade Runner & Inception questions was finally settled as a Yes by the directors, actors, and producers. Therefore, your theory is correct.

2. I never thought that way about this movie before. In this case, this is the greatest Trek movie.
__________________
"Don't do it, Meat!"
"Don't do it, Cheese!"
Kevman7987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 05:18 PM   #3
Vger23
Commander
 
Vger23's Avatar
 
Location: New England
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I have mixed feelings about this. In one way...it makes sense and fixes a lot of issues. In another, it kind of "minimizes" the film a bit, and this happens to be a movie I have a soft spot for...!

Interesting stuff though!
__________________
I am KEEROCK!!
Vger23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 08:47 PM   #4
SimpleLogic
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Location: Dallas, TX
View SimpleLogic's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Maybe the dream theory could be even more interesting if the "Evil God" took the form of Gary Mitchell (One of Kirk's failures coming back to haunt him)
__________________
Are you sure it isn't time for a colorful metaphor?
SimpleLogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 09:54 PM   #5
USS Triumphant
Rear Admiral
 
USS Triumphant's Avatar
 
Location: Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I like this a lot. I especially like it if instead of a dream, it is the last thoughts Kirk's fading, dying mind had on Veridian III. He always knew he'd die alone, but in the end, his friends were right there with him, in his mind and his heart.
__________________
As the brilliant philosopher once said... Everybody, have fun tonight. Everybody, Wang Chung tonight.
USS Triumphant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 10:18 PM   #6
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Personally, I'd love to dismiss STAR TREK V: The Final Frontier as some soap-opera'ish "it was all just a bad dream" ploy, but William Shatner, himself, has stated that he hates those kinds of stories and I am forced to reject this theory. Understand I do not care for this ... ugh! ... (what word?) this "film" at all, but t'was always intended to be a part of the STAR TREK universe. This "happened." It was "real." Spock has a brother and ... he feels your pain.
__________________
If it don't take 2, it's not worth going through.™
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 10:20 PM   #7
Melakon
Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

The biggest problem I have with the theory is Shatner doesn't mention anything close to this in Star Trek Movie Memories.
__________________
Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard: For duty and humanity! --Men in Black (1934)
Melakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 10:28 PM   #8
Vger23
Commander
 
Vger23's Avatar
 
Location: New England
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I think it comes down to "personal canon" and how you create stories or excuses in your mind to deal with the less-desirable aspects of Star Trek.

I personally find this kind of approach far more interesting and productive than just getting mad and bashing the ever-living snot out of something.
__________________
I am KEEROCK!!
Vger23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21 2014, 10:38 PM   #9
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

STAR TREK: The Next Generation is all "real." Every last bit of it. And the TOS episodes it references are real. The rest of the franchise, the jury is out on.
__________________
If it don't take 2, it's not worth going through.™
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2014, 12:09 AM   #10
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I like Star Trek V, so I bristle at the idea that it was somehow more make believe than the rest of make believe Trek. As ridiculous as that sounds.

DS9 on the other hand, that's all just Benny Russell's stories.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2014, 02:20 AM   #11
bbailey861
Admiral
 
bbailey861's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, ON
View bbailey861's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
STAR TREK: The Next Generation is all "real." Every last bit of it. And the TOS episodes it references are real. The rest of the franchise, the jury is out on.
I liked this movie but the ending, Kirk's death specifically, was poorly, poorly done. For this, I blame the writing. 2takesfrakes, your loyalty to TNG is admirable. Laughable, at times, but admirable.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I like Star Trek V, so I bristle at the idea that it was somehow more make believe than the rest of make believe Trek. As ridiculous as that sounds.

DS9 on the other hand, that's all just Benny Russell's stories.
I also liked Star Trek V, but the infamous "Faux God and rock monsters that never were' scene was also poorly, poorly done. I would like to know if a higher budget and better effects would have made it better.

Khan 2.0, The whole dream theory idea was well thought out and interesting idea, though.
bbailey861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2014, 03:21 AM   #12
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

I've occasionally thought that Voyager's "Threshold" might be redeemable if everything after Paris's transwarp flight is a dream or hallucination he experiences.

A bigger budget or better effects would not have improved ST V, because its problems are conceptual. It didn't need more added (especially rock monsters, which would've been a really stupid climax for a story about a quest for God), it needed stuff deleted. Cut out the three lines about the center of the galaxy, cut out the impossibly high turboshaft, cut out Scotty hitting his head on a pipe, cut out Uhura flirting with Scotty, maybe change the photon torpedoes at the climax to phasers (because antimatter warheads going off that close to the leads would vaporize them and everything for kilometers around them, not just knock them off their feet), and it becomes a much smarter movie.
__________________
Written Worlds -- Christopher L. Bennett's blog and webpage
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2014, 04:29 AM   #13
Agenda
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Star Trek V was Kirk's dream and my nightmare.
Agenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2014, 01:52 PM   #14
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Christopher wrote: View Post
I've occasionally thought that Voyager's "Threshold" might be redeemable if everything after Paris's transwarp flight is a dream or hallucination he experiences.

A bigger budget or better effects would not have improved ST V, because its problems are conceptual. It didn't need more added (especially rock monsters, which would've been a really stupid climax for a story about a quest for God), it needed stuff deleted. Cut out the three lines about the center of the galaxy, cut out the impossibly high turboshaft, cut out Scotty hitting his head on a pipe, cut out Uhura flirting with Scotty, maybe change the photon torpedoes at the climax to phasers (because antimatter warheads going off that close to the leads would vaporize them and everything for kilometers around them, not just knock them off their feet), and it becomes a much smarter movie.
Interesting suggestions. I wonder if there's enough surviving cut/alternate footage to replace the problem scenes and come away with something stronger?
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 22 2014, 02:44 PM   #15
Shat Happens
Captain
 
Shat Happens's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek V - The Dream Theory

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
If you look at TFF as a strange dream of Kirks...from the first campsite scene post mountain fall to right at the end of the film with the 'Row Row Row your boat' reprise..
Thta explains DECK 87 too!

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes, your loyalty to TNG is admirable. Laughable, at times, but admirable.
Shat Happens is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.