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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Nemesis
Excellent 3 1.60%
Good 31 16.58%
Average 48 25.67%
Bad 49 26.20%
Terrible 56 29.95%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 5 2014, 10:09 PM   #361
Botany Bay
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

RAMA wrote: View Post
Ive come to one main conclusion: Insurrection killed off future buzz for STNG movies. There was a good ad campaign, the cinemascore was fine from people who went ro see it, but the tv and film franchise was faltering somewhat in the eyes the general public and non-trekkie fans.
I agree with this. Have always thought it unlikely any casual fan subjected to INS (a TV episode, and a very, very poor one at that) would ever willingly part with their money to see another Next Gen film.
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Old April 5 2014, 10:14 PM   #362
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Well, I was no casual fan back then, and I skipped "Nemesis" simply because it sounded freaking stupid.
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Old April 6 2014, 04:28 AM   #363
TV's Frank
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I may be alone in this, but one aspect of NEMESIS that I enjoyed was how it was essentially a big budget "bottle show". There was only location shooting for the Argo sequence, but for most of the film the cast remains on the Enterprise. As a fan of the ship, I really liked that all of the crew spent so much time there, especially with Picard fully in command. I appreciate the location shooting on the previous movies and Picard's in those environments, but having much of NEMESIS occur on the Enterprise made it resemble those "bottle shows" from the series.
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Old April 20 2014, 10:47 PM   #364
Pasi Nurminen
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I enjoyed Nemesis. I enjoyed the villain. He is a sympathetic character, even if his ultimate objective of destroying Earth is too cartoonish to be taken seriously.

I find it vaguely amusing that many of the people who deride Nemesis for what they see as its weak story are the same people who praise J.J. Abrams' movies though both have far weaker (and ultimately nonsensical) stories.
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Old April 21 2014, 04:04 AM   #365
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I find it vaguely amusing that many of the people who deride Nemesis for what they see as its weak story are the same people who praise J.J. Abrams' movies though both have far weaker (and ultimately nonsensical) stories.
They're all equally bad, IMO.
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Old April 21 2014, 05:35 AM   #366
J. Allen
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I enjoyed Nemesis. I enjoyed the villain. He is a sympathetic character, even if his ultimate objective of destroying Earth is too cartoonish to be taken seriously.

I find it vaguely amusing that many of the people who deride Nemesis for what they see as its weak story are the same people who praise J.J. Abrams' movies though both have far weaker (and ultimately nonsensical) stories.
Not so much weak story, as the non-sensical parts of the story. A movie can have a weak story and still be popular, and well made. It all comes down to the story elements, and I think there were far more negative elements than positive ones, but those are just my two bits on it.

I don't dislike Nemesis. There are elements I enjoyed: I love the Riker/Troi wedding, the visuals have never looked better, the opening scene was a nice change of pace, it was cool to see Romulans and Remans as the focus of a movie, and the wake held for Data, between old friends, was sweet.

It's just, as a whole, it didn't do it for me.

People who like Nemesis, but dislike the Abrams films don't bother me, or amuse me, though I do scratch my head in confusion when said people insist the Abrams films aren't real Trek. They're just as real as the other movies. It's all Trek. It really comes down to personal taste, and I always find something to like about every movie (loved the cinematography for INS, for example).
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Old April 21 2014, 05:44 AM   #367
Dukhat
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Pasi Nurminen wrote: View Post
I find it vaguely amusing that many of the people who deride Nemesis for what they see as its weak story are the same people who praise J.J. Abrams' movies though both have far weaker (and ultimately nonsensical) stories.
Well then I suppose I'm lumped into that camp, because to me, there differences between Nemesis and Star Trek '09 were like night and day.
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Old April 21 2014, 05:22 PM   #368
Vger23
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

While Nemesis is a flawed movie...it is still better than Insurrection and Generations. It's really not that far short of First Contact in terms of overall quality and enjoyability. Still, INS and GEN are really weak movies (and FC is not nearly as good as many like to pretend)...so I'm not sure what that's saying.

I voted "good." I enjoyed it when I first watched it, and I still enjoy it from time to time.
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Old April 25 2014, 12:23 AM   #369
GalaxyX
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Vger23 wrote: View Post
While Nemesis is a flawed movie...it is still better than Insurrection and Generations. It's really not that far short of First Contact in terms of overall quality and enjoyability. Still, INS and GEN are really weak movies (and FC is not nearly as good as many like to pretend)...so I'm not sure what that's saying.

I voted "good." I enjoyed it when I first watched it, and I still enjoy it from time to time.
Honestly all Nemesis needed to be a decent movie was not to be so damn dark and depressing.

By the end of the movie I always feel like I've been sucker punched in the kidneys (hence only having seen it a couple of times)

J.J. Abrams' Trek OTOH is bright and cheerful, even if some of the stuff happening to the characters isn't (destruction of Vulcan for example was going way too far).

So while I don't go actively watching the nuTrek, I'd watch it if it came up on TV or something.

Nemesis I will avoid like the plague.
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Old April 25 2014, 02:26 PM   #370
sonak
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Vger23 wrote: View Post
While Nemesis is a flawed movie...it is still better than Insurrection and Generations. It's really not that far short of First Contact in terms of overall quality and enjoyability. Still, INS and GEN are really weak movies (and FC is not nearly as good as many like to pretend)...so I'm not sure what that's saying.

I voted "good." I enjoyed it when I first watched it, and I still enjoy it from time to time.
Honestly all Nemesis needed to be a decent movie was not to be so damn dark and depressing.

By the end of the movie I always feel like I've been sucker punched in the kidneys (hence only having seen it a couple of times)

J.J. Abrams' Trek OTOH is bright and cheerful, even if some of the stuff happening to the characters isn't (destruction of Vulcan for example was going way too far).

So while I don't go actively watching the nuTrek, I'd watch it if it came up on TV or something.

Nemesis I will avoid like the plague.


I wouldn't say that STID is all that bright and cheerful.
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Old April 25 2014, 05:19 PM   #371
JarodRussell
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Vger23 wrote: View Post
While Nemesis is a flawed movie...it is still better than Insurrection and Generations. It's really not that far short of First Contact in terms of overall quality and enjoyability. Still, INS and GEN are really weak movies (and FC is not nearly as good as many like to pretend)...so I'm not sure what that's saying.

I voted "good." I enjoyed it when I first watched it, and I still enjoy it from time to time.
Honestly all Nemesis needed to be a decent movie was not to be so damn dark and depressing.

By the end of the movie I always feel like I've been sucker punched in the kidneys (hence only having seen it a couple of times)

J.J. Abrams' Trek OTOH is bright and cheerful, even if some of the stuff happening to the characters isn't (destruction of Vulcan for example was going way too far).

So while I don't go actively watching the nuTrek, I'd watch it if it came up on TV or something.

Nemesis I will avoid like the plague.
Noticed that upon comparison of Nemesis as TNG finale and The Undiscovered Country as TOS finally. The tone and feel of TUC is much more optimistic and enjoyable, despite the dark subject matter. Nemesis just drags you down.

And that is even intentionally. I think it was stated in the DVD commentary that Stuart Baird asked Jerry Goldsmith to make a "sad" or "melancholic" soundtrack, instead of something upbeat.

The entire film feels sad and tired. Performances, soundtrack, editing, direction, everything.
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Old April 25 2014, 06:24 PM   #372
RAMA
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Nemesis and the JJ movies are wholly different animals in regards to filmmaking..

RAMA
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Old April 25 2014, 09:07 PM   #373
C.E. Evans
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

While I didn't like Nemesis at first and was pretty much on the basher bandwagon for a couple of years afterward, I've actually grown to like it after repeated viewings. I guess I was able to ignore some of the inconsistencies with previous stuff that used to bother me as well as have a bit more fun with the Picard & Data clones. I do consider Shinzon now a top villain in Trek these days--not quite up there with the original Khan, but better than most Trek villains, IMO.
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Old April 25 2014, 09:27 PM   #374
Lance
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I've found that for myself it helps if I make a mental note to take into account the deleted scenes as I'm watching the movie. It helps add context to certain scenes, which helps sell them a little better than the way they're actually presented in the movie, although obviously that does indicate the movie itself has got problems in certain places.
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Old April 25 2014, 10:54 PM   #375
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I tried to watch it a few months ago on SyFy. I lost interest after about ten minutes.
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