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Old March 31 2014, 03:15 PM   #166
DangerLRobinson
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Location: The Q Continuum
Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

See its more of an interwoven collective bargaing philosophy where maybe one person has no need for it however there is still the possibility of referring the person that cannot provide for me to someone else and even now charity still allows for many things to get done.

Also the main thing that we have a problem with is the sheer scope of how monumentally historic that such a change in our society would take.
First we would have to start teaching education about sustainability and innovation. As well as collective or direct democracy and philosophy in futurist ideals. Then is the hard part in convincing the wealthy and powerful that they would still maintain some status and fame even more so if being the deciding factors facilitating the change in society and civilization. They would be able to say and their descendants that they sacrificed their power and wealth for the bettermant and evolution of mankind.
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Old March 31 2014, 04:55 PM   #167
sonak
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

DangerLRobinson wrote: View Post
See its more of an interwoven collective bargaing philosophy where maybe one person has no need for it however there is still the possibility of referring the person that cannot provide for me to someone else and even now charity still allows for many things to get done.

Also the main thing that we have a problem with is the sheer scope of how monumentally historic that such a change in our society would take.
First we would have to start teaching education about sustainability and innovation. As well as collective or direct democracy and philosophy in futurist ideals. Then is the hard part in convincing the wealthy and powerful that they would still maintain some status and fame even more so if being the deciding factors facilitating the change in society and civilization. They would be able to say and their descendants that they sacrificed their power and wealth for the bettermant and evolution of mankind.


Humans are extremely adaptable as history has shown. We've gone from primitive hunter-gatherer societies to agrarian ones, to industrialized ones, to modern service/information based ones. As you write, an issue would come up with those who'd lose their power statuses in a more egalitarian post-scarcity society, but advances always threaten the status quo of SOMEONE who wants to prevent them.
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Old March 31 2014, 08:05 PM   #168
DangerLRobinson
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

Whatever the most powerful or wealthy status positions there are would need to be retrofitted or retroformed so a gas company now harvests sunlight geothermal etc. While making money then the next step is that whomever had control over that company perhaps slowly weens itself off of the need to profit due to the better possibility of that because of sustainable resources. That's why I mentioned the change in education at all levels promoting futurist ideals and philosophies. Then with government. Those people would be changed drastically to either be the starfleet administration. Or new roles as stewards spokespersons or clerks instead of representatives on a heirarchial ladder. And an actor or musician still would be famous and have status however the likelihood of a person far of in the future living in luxury and decadence would be only if their fans and their work determine deservedness or worthiness. I will elaborate. If I am an actor and its the 24th century and I've made thirty films that are extremely popular then my house deserves an addition on it because I've done all that work to entertain that many people. The same as another person who had put in years of work and is a great architect. Should have what they have. Its up to that janitor or that school kid as to how much knowledge experience and skills they learn that determines what they earn.
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Old April 13 2014, 12:57 PM   #169
varek
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

I think it would be wonderful! You could achieve your dreams without having to worry about money. I hate money and paying bills!
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Old April 13 2014, 05:17 PM   #170
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

varek wrote: View Post
I think it would be wonderful! You could achieve your dreams without having to worry about money. I hate money and paying bills!
I hate having to pay bills too, don't get me wrong. But if I suddenly found myself in a society where I could just do whatever I wanted all the time, I don't know how I would be affected by that. I might not like what I turn into.

My job is certainly no picnic, but at least there's the satisfaction of being compensated for all that hard work.
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Old April 13 2014, 09:25 PM   #171
sonak
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
varek wrote: View Post
I think it would be wonderful! You could achieve your dreams without having to worry about money. I hate money and paying bills!
I hate having to pay bills too, don't get me wrong. But if I suddenly found myself in a society where I could just do whatever I wanted all the time, I don't know how I would be affected by that. I might not like what I turn into.

My job is certainly no picnic, but at least there's the satisfaction of being compensated for all that hard work.


er, you realize that there is already a large group of people that can just do what they want to, right?

Rich people can do this, as can retired people. What have they "turned into?"
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Old April 14 2014, 04:57 AM   #172
Merry Christmas
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

sonak wrote: View Post
Rich people can do this, as can retired people. What have they "turned into?"
Poor people on welfare, anybody on long term unemployment, disability, etc..

What's the ratio between alcohol/drug abusers verse those producing art and writing a great novel?

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Old April 14 2014, 08:44 PM   #173
sonak
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Rich people can do this, as can retired people. What have they "turned into?"
Poor people on welfare, anybody on long term unemployment, disability, etc..

What's the ratio between alcohol/drug abusers verse those producing art and writing a great novel?



There is little empirical support for the notion that people on welfare or disability are more likely to be drug abusers than others.

As for not producing art or novels, probably not because if they're on welfare they're likely to be rather busy with the day to day struggles of finding enough to eat and making sure they have a place to sleep.

Are retired people more likely to be alcoholics and drug abusers? After all, as I wrote, they get to do whatever they want to. From my observations though, they tend to go to church, play bingo, volunteer at schools, watch television, read, etc.

Admittedly, my observations are unscientific. They may be out there getting sloshed on Jack Daniels...
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Old April 14 2014, 09:56 PM   #174
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

I don't understand what T'Girl meant by that, either. Hopefully she'll clarify.

On admittedly anecdotal basis, it's worth pointing out that there are many significant artists that died from drugs. Just off the top of my head, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Heath Ledger and Philip Seymore Hoffman all died from drug overdoses. Ernest Hemingway was a drunkard who ultimately killed himself. Addiction does not necessarily preclude success in the arts.

Is the implication that laziness leads to drug use? Or that a society that does not focus on monetary gain will cause everyone to simply zone out with drugs? If that is the argument then it completely misunderstands addiction.
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Old April 15 2014, 02:48 AM   #175
TheGoodNews
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

Poor people on welfare, anybody on long term unemployment, disability, etc..

What's the ratio between alcohol/drug abusers verse those producing art and writing a great novel?

Who buys all the cocaine, T'Girl? Definitely not "poor people on welfare, anybody on long term unemployment, disability, etc.."

And I doubt those people have the means to do whatever it is they desire or aspire to, though there are plenty of starving artists and writers, I suppose.
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Old April 15 2014, 04:24 AM   #176
Merry Christmas
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

The National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) is the Federal Government's primary source of national data on the use of alcohol, tobacco, and illicit substances. NSDUH 2005-2011 findings show ...

Of unemployed adults, 18.5 are illicit drug users.
9.4 percent of part-time employees are drug users.
8.8 percent of full time employees are drug users.
less than 6 percent for those in the "other" category, which includes retirees.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drugs/a/nsduh_drugs.htm
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Old April 15 2014, 04:38 AM   #177
PhoenixClass
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

OK, but what is the point you are using that data in support of?
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Old April 15 2014, 02:20 PM   #178
Edit_XYZ
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
OK, but what is the point you are using that data in support of?
Are you serious?
After the last ~5 posts, you are still failing to understand what 'the point' of that data is within the scope of this thread?
Ookie-dookie.
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Old April 15 2014, 03:15 PM   #179
sonak
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) is the Federal Government's primary source of national data on the use of alcohol, tobacco, and illicit substances. NSDUH 2005-2011 findings show ...

Of unemployed adults, 18.5 are illicit drug users.
9.4 percent of part-time employees are drug users.
8.8 percent of full time employees are drug users.
less than 6 percent for those in the "other" category, which includes retirees.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drugs/a/nsduh_drugs.htm


OK, so even if true, let's look for a likely causality link here. Since retired people AREN'T likely to be drug abusers, it's not the "not working" aspect that's causing the abuse, it's UNEMPLOYMENT, which, unlike retirement, is a stressful and involuntary state where you have little security in terms of providing basic needs.

This still doesn't prove the poster's point that people WHO DON'T WORK are likely to somehow turn into drug abusers, when this doesn't happen with either retirees or the idle rich.


Actually, that data indicates that if you want to cut down on drug abuse, give everyone the economic security of a retiree.


(I bet drug abuse is lower in socially democratic countries in Scandinavia than it is in more neo-liberal ones for the same reason. Less desperation= less drug abuse)
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Old April 15 2014, 03:50 PM   #180
2takesfrakes
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Re: What is civlian life like in the Federation?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
NSDUH 2005-2011 findings show ...

Of unemployed adults, 18.5 are illicit drug users.
9.4 percent of part-time employees are drug users.
8.8 percent of full time employees are drug users.
less than 6 percent for those in the "other" category, which includes retirees.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drugs/a/nsduh_drugs.htm
And 100% of Elitist Hollywood does cocaine.
>>SNORT!!!<<
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