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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 12 2014, 07:32 PM   #46
Khan 2.0
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Re: TFF - The Good

Kirk literally fighting demons and rock monsters hand-to-hand.
wonder if shatners seen Noah... bet hed have killed to have those rock monsters at the end of TFF
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Old April 13 2014, 12:30 AM   #47
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Re: TFF - The Good

sonak wrote: View Post
-The music is great, one of the best scores of the series
-the TOS feel to it, from the plot to the focus on the Big Three
-Laurence Luckinbill's performance

Good lines

"what does God need with a starship?"

"I couldn't help but notice your pain."

"maybe he's not out there Bones, maybe he's in here, the human heart."
I agree with everything you wrote except the last line about god being in the human heart. It bothered me on June 9, 1989 when I first heard it and to this day. The Federation has 150 planets and they know of countless other worlds, yet god resides in the "human" heart? I don't care for that sentiment. While he's telling bones this, does he even care about spock's half Vulcan heart?
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Old April 13 2014, 12:48 AM   #48
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Re: TFF - The Good

lurok wrote: View Post
As we seem to have vfx-interested people here, curious about the officer's lounge/pain scene: does anyone know if the starfield running in back of shot is some form of projection? Doesn't feel like blue/greenscreen.
Very heavy-duty rear projection. The cinematographer actually wanted to shoot bluescreen in order to have a huge backlight coming through the windows, but there would have been tremendous matting problems on every shot that wasn't static (even movement against the RP was problematic in terms of sometimes being a little off-axis, which can hurt the look.)

For me, I think the RP is one of the best things about the movie visually, both there and to a lesser degree on the bridge viewscreen as well. It has some lovely quality of not-perfectly-sharp that really works well for the lounge.

Rear projection actually continued to see use in features well past this point; Fincher used it in FIGHT CLUB for the driving/crash scene, and it still gets used on TV sometimes, though usually now with those LED-type screens, so it is a digital version of what used to involve multiple projectors.
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Old April 13 2014, 01:43 AM   #49
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Re: TFF - The Good

Thanks. That was my suspicion, and I think it's quite a nice effect.
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Old April 13 2014, 04:07 AM   #50
pfontaine2
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Re: TFF - The Good

I agree that the rear projection in the lounge was spectacular. It's one of the few times I've felt like these characters were on a ship that had tremendous forward motion. The low lighting must of helped because the blacks are truly black. The same can't be said for the bridge scenes where the rear projection doesn't have the same amount of contrast and ended up washed out.
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Old April 13 2014, 09:30 PM   #51
sonak
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Re: TFF - The Good

balls wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
-The music is great, one of the best scores of the series
-the TOS feel to it, from the plot to the focus on the Big Three
-Laurence Luckinbill's performance

Good lines

"what does God need with a starship?"

"I couldn't help but notice your pain."

"maybe he's not out there Bones, maybe he's in here, the human heart."
I agree with everything you wrote except the last line about god being in the human heart. It bothered me on June 9, 1989 when I first heard it and to this day. The Federation has 150 planets and they know of countless other worlds, yet god resides in the "human" heart? I don't care for that sentiment. While he's telling bones this, does he even care about spock's half Vulcan heart?


I see your point but I think he meant it in the generic sense, not the specific species.
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Old April 13 2014, 11:54 PM   #52
Maurice
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Re: TFF - The Good

As to budget, that budget comparison doc I posted a while back indicates that more money was spent on VFX for TFF than TVH, so why would ILM turn it down for money reasons alone?
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Old April 14 2014, 01:52 AM   #53
2takesfrakes
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Re: TFF - The Good

lurok wrote: View Post
Thanks. That was my suspicion, and I think it's quite a nice effect.
This is just a little nitpick, I know, but the rear projection in the Observation Lounge would've looked a little better had there been some actual glass, or plexiglass, or whatever, in the actual window. Some vague reflections with that behind would've helped, considerably. As it was, it was OK. It's my understanding that the rear projected film wasn't quite long enough and that presented challenges for a few scenes ...
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Old April 14 2014, 05:17 AM   #54
trevanian
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Re: TFF - The Good

Maurice wrote: View Post
As to budget, that budget comparison doc I posted a while back indicates that more money was spent on VFX for TFF than TVH, so why would ILM turn it down for money reasons alone?
ILM felt a little constricted by the budgetary and in-camera approaches on TVH, so maybe they weren't chomping at the bit to have to go through that again (Ken Ralston was on the BTTF sequels so he wouldn't have been available anyway.) It was said earlier in the decade that ILM guaranteed its shots not to go overbudget (I think Sallin said that), but I don't know if that means they ate overages or that there was a different way to look at the numbers.

Those numbers you found for TFF's VFX might be a times point 5 overage for all we know. You look at all the hardware that got built for RP and for the unused FP for the God live bit that got dropped to post, plus the electron microscope modification and a brand new mocon system, plus whatever it cost to blow up the scratched neg shots that Ferren saved for them. Even with all that, the number you found just blew my mind given the results (or lack thereof.)
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Old April 14 2014, 10:17 AM   #55
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Re: TFF - The Good

it was Star Trek though...ILM shouldve done it for free (or at most some signed photos of Shatner)
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Old April 14 2014, 08:11 PM   #56
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Re: TFF - The Good

^^^Ok, time to cut back on the Cordrazine, man.
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Old April 14 2014, 10:40 PM   #57
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Re: TFF - The Good

ok

but I Wonder what the FX wouldve been like had ILM done them?

the spaceship FX for ENT/BOP/shuttle surely wouldve been up to Trek III standard (plus maybe wed have seen some new mushroom spacedock stuff as in VI instead of reusing the end of IV) but what about ShaKaRee/god? would they have done the bluey light show? Maybe, but itd have more than likely looked less bland, more 'ILM' looking...in fact maybe they wouldve been able to do the original ending of all the gargoyles coming out the ground after the torpedo strike and them chasing KSB back to the shuttle with Scotty accidentally beaming one up thinking its kirk and having to disintegrate it but in doing so destroys the transporter. So kirk is on the run using 2 phasers and gets to the top of the mountain and fires both phasers at the gargoyles but there's too many but then the BOP arrives and blasts them..then kirk fires his phasers at the BOP before being beamed up..(as described in The Making of The Trek Films & The Making of Trek VI) the gargoyles couldve been a combination of animatronic/puppets/early CG/animation/man in suits as in Raiders (dark angel ending), Ghostbusters, Gremlins, Twilight Zone The Movie Nightmare 20,000 segment, SW trilogy, Aliens etc (dunno how 'god' wouldve fit in with all the gargoyles? maybe He would be like the overlord of them directing them/guiding them toward the trio like a big Dr Manhattan.)

I doubt the FX wouldve been an issue and criticized just like they weren't for the other films

Last edited by Khan 2.0; April 14 2014 at 11:05 PM.
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Old April 15 2014, 01:01 AM   #58
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Re: TFF - The Good

Maurice wrote: View Post
As to budget, that budget comparison doc I posted a while back indicates that more money was spent on VFX for TFF than TVH, so why would ILM turn it down for money reasons alone?
It seems to me that Final Frontier was more demanding for visual effects than Voyage Home was, but that's not based on actually counting the number of shots or their duration. Has anyone got a sense of how the movies compare for shots of starships and energy effects and the other stuff that can't be done in-camera?
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Old April 15 2014, 01:41 AM   #59
trevanian
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Re: TFF - The Good

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
ok

but I Wonder what the FX wouldve been like had ILM done them?

the spaceship FX for ENT/BOP/shuttle surely wouldve been up to Trek III standard (plus maybe wed have seen some new mushroom spacedock stuff as in VI instead of reusing the end of IV) but what about ShaKaRee/god? would they have done the bluey light show?
They didn't name names, but the 'audition' for vfx houses on TFF was to do up the god tube effect (called at that point the undisclosed wonder, I think) ... Winter or somebody was quoted as saying one of the biggest fx houses just superimposed somebody inside a tube of light without any fanciness or magic. Have no idea if that was ILM or Apogee or not, but I can't imagine DreamQuest on their worst day delivering something like that for a test.
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Old April 15 2014, 01:44 AM   #60
trevanian
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Re: TFF - The Good

Nebusj wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
As to budget, that budget comparison doc I posted a while back indicates that more money was spent on VFX for TFF than TVH, so why would ILM turn it down for money reasons alone?
It seems to me that Final Frontier was more demanding for visual effects than Voyage Home was, but that's not based on actually counting the number of shots or their duration. Has anyone got a sense of how the movies compare for shots of starships and energy effects and the other stuff that can't be done in-camera?
Thing to keep in mind here is that most of the God sequence was supposed to be in-camera, using a front projected image of God on a spinning cylinder, and that approach was dropped practically on the day. So the number of opticals went up enormously just right there with that added to the post schedule.

TFF actually cuts some corners pretty well, using starfields w/o a starship a couple of times (the flawed log entry, and again when Spock is first in the lounge.) I do think the ILM shots stand out like Hulk's thumbs next to the other stuff in the film, it is like it is from a different universe rather than a different movie with respect to lighting as well as success in compositing.
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