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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Nemesis
Excellent 3 1.60%
Good 31 16.58%
Average 48 25.67%
Bad 49 26.20%
Terrible 56 29.95%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 2 2014, 05:38 PM   #346
Smellmet
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

You make some good points, but as soon as Kirk gets on the Enterprise in TFF, it's all over for me - odd scene and score aside, the execution of the movie is appalling, it's the only Trek film I've turned off half way through and put another one on. And I am a massive TOS movie fan...
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Old March 2 2014, 07:06 PM   #347
Timby
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Addiction to what? Steroids? He looks quite beefy in Dark Knight Rises compared to the waif he was in Nemesis
Hardy is a recovering alcoholic and crack addict.

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I just pretend Valeris is having a Vulcan orgasm

Makes the scene 10 times better for me.
What the fuck.
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Old March 2 2014, 08:27 PM   #348
GalaxyX
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Smellmet wrote: View Post

You lost me right there. Bar the big 3 scenes at the start, TFF is an absolute embarrassment of a movie.
All of their scenes were great--and played well on how long they have been inseparable. Moreover, Kirk's "I need my pain!" scene was ST gold, as longtime fans know exaclty what Kirk was referring to, and how that shaped his behavior across TOS, and in TWOK/TSFS.

Further, the heart of the story is classic ST--Kirk and his best friends are all painted as spiritual men, but their lives as explorers--wanting to know more is a rational motive for putting up with Sybok's quest. In the end, they already know the answer (Spock's brother mistakenly thinking he could find a location like some random town), but their faith--Kirk in particular--is tied to their explorer's gene.

Even the likes of Insurrection - whilst near the bottom of the pile, is still a competently made slick looking movie with nowhere near the problems of TFF
Insurrection was pure garbage. The new age characters (unfortunately nothing new to the Berman end of the franchise), pointless, weak villains, and a plot that made the most boring of TNG episodes seem like grand theater.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I loved the scene where Kirk contemplates the plate "To boldly go".

Insurrection's biggest weakness is that it tried to get us to like a group of people that are very unlikeable. Never once did I root for the "Ba'ku" since they come across as arrogant assholes. Rewriting the Ba'ku to be more likeable probably would have singlehandedly saved the movie, even if the rest of it stayed intact.


Smellmet wrote: View Post
You make some good points, but as soon as Kirk gets on the Enterprise in TFF, it's all over for me - odd scene and score aside, the execution of the movie is appalling, it's the only Trek film I've turned off half way through and put another one on. And I am a massive TOS movie fan...
The only things I think I didn't like were:

1. The lower budget, which reflected in the special FX and quality of the sets. - Not necessarily a deal breaker to make a good story.

2. The weak secondary villain (A rogue Klingon)

3. Scotty's "I know this ship like the back of my hand". At least they were consistent in showing the results of his mistake instead of forgetting about it.

4. The Uhura fan dance. What were they thinking?


I have other nitpicks, but they are minor ones I can forgive due to Paramount being a bunch of cheap fuckers.

Timby wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Addiction to what? Steroids? He looks quite beefy in Dark Knight Rises compared to the waif he was in Nemesis
Hardy is a recovering alcoholic and crack addict.

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I just pretend Valeris is having a Vulcan orgasm

Makes the scene 10 times better for me.
What the fuck.
Who in Hollywood isn't a recovering crack addict.

And the Valeris this was meant as a joke, lighten up a bit!
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Old March 2 2014, 08:31 PM   #349
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

TFF is embarrassing when tries to be funny (potty humor, Scotty hitting his head). "Insurrection" is embarrassing when it tries to be serious (Ru'ofo's scream, Picard's groan-inducing line, "I'm not begging for my life, I'm begging for yours.")
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Old March 2 2014, 08:53 PM   #350
Timby
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Who in Hollywood isn't a recovering crack addict.
Hardy spent nearly a decade in serious trouble before he made the decision to get treatment. It caused the end of his first marriage and he will likely face some unpleasant health issues in a decade or two.

Stay classy, GalaxyX.
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Old March 5 2014, 07:45 PM   #351
USS Firefly
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Thet should have used Commander Tomalak, I loved Andreas Katsulas in TNG.
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Old March 6 2014, 07:36 AM   #352
GalaxyX
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Timby wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Who in Hollywood isn't a recovering crack addict.
Hardy spent nearly a decade in serious trouble before he made the decision to get treatment. It caused the end of his first marriage and he will likely face some unpleasant health issues in a decade or two.

Stay classy, GalaxyX.
I can't feel sorry for people that make millions of dollars and decide to waste all that money on drugs.

I could retire on half that much, and these guys make this kind of money on a yearly basis.

Nope, sorry, my basket ran out of fucks to give.
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Old March 6 2014, 08:23 PM   #353
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I can't feel sorry for people that make millions of dollars and decide to waste all that money on drugs.
lots of people outside of Hollywood have drug problems. How do you feel about people who don't make millions of dollars but still waste what little they have on drugs? Is it the drugs or the money that bothers you?
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Old March 7 2014, 02:32 AM   #354
JarodRussell
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

And Hardy had those problems before he had millions of dollars.
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Old March 7 2014, 09:10 PM   #355
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I can't feel sorry for people that make millions of dollars and decide to waste all that money on drugs.
Fun fact: No one wakes up one morning and says to themself, "Self, I'd like to be an alcoholic and a drug addict today."
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Old April 5 2014, 12:28 PM   #356
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Hardy talks Nemesis in latest Total Film:
http://m.totalfilm.com/news/tom-hard...r-trek-nemesis
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Old April 5 2014, 05:28 PM   #357
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Ive come to one main conclusion: Insurrection killed off future buzz for STNG movies. There was a good ad campaign, the cinemascore was fine from people who went ro see it, but the tv and film franchise was faltering somewhat in the eyes the general public and non-trekkie fans.
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Old April 5 2014, 06:24 PM   #358
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Khan 2.0 wrote: View Post
Hardy talks Nemesis in latest Total Film:
http://m.totalfilm.com/news/tom-hard...r-trek-nemesis
From the article:
"I was terrified," he says. "Every day on that set, I was terrified – which worked for the character anyway.

"You can't hide that, the camera will pick it up. I was genuinely out of my depth. The whole thing was, 'How can I do this?' I took it very seriously."
You know what's really sad is that the entire cast of all the films were -- and I really believe this -- genuinely ready to carry a major motion picture. Everyone from the main cast to the supporting cast to the FX and makeup guys, all the post-production crew, were ready to make some impressive movies. The ones who weren't ready were the writers. They sunk everyone else who was ready and put their all into it. It was they -- Moore and Braga, Piller and Logan -- not any of the cast, who were out of their depths, and the reputation of the TNG cast -- who could have done just as well as the TOS cast -- now has to suffer.

If after four years the only thing you can come up with is an evil twin story, you genuinely have nothing to say as an artist.
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Old April 5 2014, 09:30 PM   #359
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post

You know what's really sad is that the entire cast of all the films were -- and I really believe this -- genuinely ready to carry a major motion picture. Everyone from the main cast to the supporting cast to the FX and makeup guys, all the post-production crew, were ready to make some impressive movies. The ones who weren't ready were the writers. They sunk everyone else who was ready and put their all into it. It was they -- Moore and Braga, Piller and Logan -- not any of the cast, who were out of their depths, and the reputation of the TNG cast -- who could have done just as well as the TOS cast -- now has to suffer.
I disagree. The entire TNG movie franchise felt like episodes. From the way they were written to the way they were directed to the sets looking really cheap.

From interviews, Braga and Moore (I'm not a fan of either one) said they were handed a checklist of things they needed to accomplish in Star Trek: Generations. With the studio being very hands on during the entire process. Having the top dictate how a movie is written is usually a recipe for disaster.
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Old April 5 2014, 10:07 PM   #360
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Despite all the flak Rick Berman gets as keeper of the franchise, there were still people above him with their own ideas of what Star Trek should be.
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