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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 4 2014, 03:21 PM   #121
sonak
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
3chordboy wrote: View Post
inspired by this thread I watched Nemesis for the first time in nearly a decade yesterday. whilst I still don't think it's a great film I have to admit that it's no where near as bad as I remember
I've seen the movie a total of 3 times.

Once at the theater, where I walked out groaning in disappointment.

Second time I caught it on TV, and I don't think I finished watching it.

3rd time was because I wanted to review it here.

I didn't find it as grating the 3rd time until about the time of Data's "heroics", which is where the movie fell apart for me again.


that's pretty late in the movie for it to "fall apart" for you.
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Old April 4 2014, 05:47 PM   #122
GalaxyX
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

sonak wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
3chordboy wrote: View Post
inspired by this thread I watched Nemesis for the first time in nearly a decade yesterday. whilst I still don't think it's a great film I have to admit that it's no where near as bad as I remember
I've seen the movie a total of 3 times.

Once at the theater, where I walked out groaning in disappointment.

Second time I caught it on TV, and I don't think I finished watching it.

3rd time was because I wanted to review it here.

I didn't find it as grating the 3rd time until about the time of Data's "heroics", which is where the movie fell apart for me again.


that's pretty late in the movie for it to "fall apart" for you.
That was the 3rd time I watched it, trying to soak it in with an open mind. Most of it works if you ignore the lame wedding scene, dune buggy scene, and rape scene.

But at the "heroic Data dies" scene I just couldn't muster any openmindedness toward the film anymore. I was done with it.

My main point is that I don't believe that ANY of the TNG movies were better than Nemesis, all of them were too low budget, low scope extended TV episodes, but they finally got found out with Nemesis and the game was up.
I blame Paramount for being a bunch of cheap motherfuckers. They thought the nerd crowd would be enough to make a profit on and didn't have to invest much in it.
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Old April 4 2014, 06:35 PM   #123
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

They gambled and lost, pure and simple
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Old April 4 2014, 07:42 PM   #124
mendelin
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

My main point is that I don't believe that ANY of the TNG movies were better than Nemesis, all of them were too low budget, low scope extended TV episodes, but they finally got found out with Nemesis and the game was up.
Totally agree.
I still can't understand why cheap and naive TOS-movies (II - VI) were much better than TNG-movies.

Perhaps, it's a matter of good screenwriters and screenplays. Basicly, the idea of "Generations" was good, but it was very bad implemented. I mean the initial idea of two crews in the battle. But this idea degenerated into "two captains against one villain" and the death of one captain as "something special".
Yes, TOS-movies weren't perfect, but they were not so cynical.

I just found an interview with Brent Spiner.

A lot of people have asked about [Star Trek: Nemesis] and "why did you kill Data?" We knew that it was going to be our last film, and we thought it might be a good idea to end it on a big emotional moment and it seemed to complete Data’s arc from the beginning. What you don’t know is that when the curtains closed in the theater and you left, the Enterprise blew up and everyone else was killed [laughs].
So, yes, very rude and very cynical. Moreover, it's unprofessional to use the death as the last chance to get an emotional response from your audience.

Last edited by mendelin; April 4 2014 at 07:55 PM.
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Old April 4 2014, 09:09 PM   #125
Hober Mallow
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

mendelin wrote: View Post
So, yes, very rude and very cynical. Moreover, it's unprofessional to use the death as the last chance to get an emotional response from your audience.
Didn't even work for me. I had absolutely no emotional response to Data's death.


Smellmet wrote: View Post
The argument that model shots are better doesn't hold water IMO - are you saying the effects in TWOK are better because they use models?
We weren't talking about which shots were better, we were talking about which ones looked like video games. "Video gamey" says to me "obviously computer generated." No, the TWOK's model FX don't look like they came out of a video game.
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Old April 5 2014, 02:05 PM   #126
beamMe
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
mendelin wrote: View Post
So, yes, very rude and very cynical. Moreover, it's unprofessional to use the death as the last chance to get an emotional response from your audience.
Didn't even work for me. I had absolutely no emotional response to Data's death.
His death really had no meaning. The whole B4-thing ruined that story element.
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Old April 5 2014, 02:35 PM   #127
JarodRussell
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

mendelin wrote: View Post
Moreover, it's unprofessional to use the death as the last chance to get an emotional response from your audience.
Haha, seriously? Unprofessional?
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Old April 5 2014, 05:15 PM   #128
RAMA
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

I dont have anything new to say really..I just reread some of this thread after my last post. Everyone has their personal opinion that's fine, can't fight it, but I dont think it's arguable that NEM was a bigger $80 million movie than any other previous Trek movie aside from TMP. I also have disproved the notion that no one liked the movie, citing the cinemascore, the decent imdb rating, and especially the then record sales on video. LOTS of people liked it.

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Old April 5 2014, 05:57 PM   #129
Hober Mallow
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

RAMA wrote: View Post
I dont have anything new to say really..I just reread some of this thread after my last post. Everyone has their personal opinion that's fine, can't fight it, but I dont think it's arguable that NEM was a bigger $80 million movie than any other previous Trek movie aside from TMP. I also have disproved the notion that no one liked the movie, citing the cinemascore, the decent imdb rating, and especially the then record sales on video. LOTS of people liked it.

RAMA
Well, video sales aren't really an indication of what fans liked. Trek fans are funny in that they'll bitch about something but still feel obligated to watch it four hundred times.
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Old April 5 2014, 06:03 PM   #130
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
I dont have anything new to say really..I just reread some of this thread after my last post. Everyone has their personal opinion that's fine, can't fight it, but I dont think it's arguable that NEM was a bigger $80 million movie than any other previous Trek movie aside from TMP. I also have disproved the notion that no one liked the movie, citing the cinemascore, the decent imdb rating, and especially the then record sales on video. LOTS of people liked it.

RAMA

Well, video sales aren't really an indication of what fans liked. Trek fans are funny in that they'll bitch about something but still feel obligated to watch it four hundred times.
On the contrary, unlike movie grosses or ticket sales, a video disc/tape sale is a single purchase, and usually a good indicator of how popular a particular movie is because it means people want to rewatch it. NEM sold in the low millions.
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Old April 5 2014, 08:07 PM   #131
mendelin
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
mendelin wrote: View Post
Moreover, it's unprofessional to use the death as the last chance to get an emotional response from your audience.
Haha, seriously? Unprofessional?
The keywords there were "last chance".
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against killing main characters, if it is really necessary for plot development.
For example, Spock's death in ST II was really meaningfull for entire story. The message of the movie was "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one". Spock's self-sacrifice was the main supporting point of this idea.

As for Generations and Nemesis, I read some interviews with Rick Berman. He said, that in Generations they decided "it would be cool to kill Kirk". They decide to use death only to be cool. That's unprofessional, IMO.

So, here is a quote:
"...One of us just kinda threw out, 'What if we kill Kirk?' And we all kinda looked at each other and said, 'Wow. That would be amazing.' ...From that point on, Kirk's death became part of the fabric of our story, and as a big surprise to us all, there was never a moment where it really came into question."
So, may be I get it wrong, but they came to this idea without any plot context.

Last edited by mendelin; April 5 2014 at 08:20 PM.
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Old April 5 2014, 08:32 PM   #132
BillJ
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

RAMA wrote: View Post

On the contrary, unlike movie grosses or ticket sales, a video disc/tape sale is a single purchase, and usually a good indicator of how popular a particular movie is because it means people want to rewatch it. NEM sold in the low millions.
There are tons of people out there who buy discs just for the sake of buying discs. I've got about five-hundred total and haven't watched half of them. They collect dust.
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Old April 5 2014, 09:10 PM   #133
RAMA
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

BillJ wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post

On the contrary, unlike movie grosses or ticket sales, a video disc/tape sale is a single purchase, and usually a good indicator of how popular a particular movie is because it means people want to rewatch it. NEM sold in the low millions.
There are tons of people out there who buy discs just for the sake of buying discs. I've got about five-hundred total and haven't watched half of them. They collect dust.
Ive never heard of such a person, and I doubt 3 million of them bought NEM discs.
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Old April 5 2014, 09:23 PM   #134
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

RAMA wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post

On the contrary, unlike movie grosses or ticket sales, a video disc/tape sale is a single purchase, and usually a good indicator of how popular a particular movie is because it means people want to rewatch it. NEM sold in the low millions.
There are tons of people out there who buy discs just for the sake of buying discs. I've got about five-hundred total and haven't watched half of them. They collect dust.
Ive never heard of such a person, and I doubt 3 million of them bought NEM discs.
I used to work with a guy who had 4,000 DVD's (I shit you not), he said he was buying them to watch when he retired. He was in his early-50's. If he kept up the pace he'd be in the neighborhood of 6-7,000 now.

I don't think its a very good film and I have three copies of it. The original DVD, the special edition DVD and the Blu-ray.

Trek fans seem to be more willing to buy things that are "Star Trek" whether they like them or not.
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Old April 5 2014, 10:15 PM   #135
Hober Mallow
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Re: NEMESIS STILL LOOKS GOOD!

In the "Why is Nemesis Unpopular?' thread, 54 people voted "Nemesis" a "terrible" film. I'm willing to bet every single one of them (other than myself) owns the film on DVD and/or bluray.
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