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Old February 22 2014, 07:35 PM   #31
Edit_XYZ
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

AverageWriter

Quoting out of context in order to be able to come with a counter-argument, I see. I already answered this objection in my previous post addressed to you:
"-the Federation not 'seeing', even once during the war, how, in its own space, small, primitive ships exit from the mother ships; or not deducing the existence of romulan cloaking technology that hides their ships until they're deep in federation space is both convoluted and makes the Federation people seem inept;"
etc.
For details - there're no where nearly enough dense nebulae in Federation space for them to not be carefully monitored after the tactic was used once by the romulans; there are even fewer such nebulae near star systems; for no one to ask ~'how did ships come into those nebulae in the first place?*' is idiotic.

*BTW, ships at warp are seen on trek sensors just fine.

PS - In conclusion, you're grasping at straws.
Large scale cloak use in the war is incompatible with 'Balance of terror', because it transforms either the romulan war period Federation or Kirk, Spock&co into idiotic buffoons.
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Last edited by Edit_XYZ; February 22 2014 at 07:47 PM.
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Old February 22 2014, 07:48 PM   #32
AverageWriter
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

"there're no where nearly enough dense nebulae in Federation space for them to not be carefully monitored"
Bull. Those damned things are EVERYWHERE. Just about every five episodes SOMEONE is bumping right into one.

In fact- that "tactic" you mention that you say doesn't "work"? About hiding your ships in a place where sensors don't function in order to overcome severe military imbalance?
Trek even DID that! For multiple seasons the Maquis had their entire survival strategy centered around maintaining themselves in a place where sensors could not locate them so they could quickly exit, strike and then withdraw.

So once again, canon throws your argument into a wall.

You're the one grasping at straws, and drawing out an argument that doesn't bode in your favor. You've made this topic quite unpleasant, to say the least.
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Old February 22 2014, 07:59 PM   #33
Edit_XYZ
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

AverageWriter

Let's try to repeat my last post; maybe you'll actually read/understand it now:
As any astronomy course shows - dense nebulae are VERY RARE. Ones close to planetary systems - even rarer.
And - nebulae are not exactly opaque to properly calibrated sensors in trek.

And the most damning part of any large-scale cloak use 'scenario' - including yours; and, of course, of your recent goalpost moving involving nebulae - is that it transforms the romulan war Federation into a gathering of idiots:
In order for a ship to exit a nebula, it must first enter there. During the 'entering' phase, it can be seen, regardless of whether it 'warps' there or whatever. Unless it has a cloak - a technology already known to the Federation.
That's a VERY SIMPLE DEDUCTION, AverageWriter. Only idiots would fail to see it; especially if their life depended on it.
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Old February 22 2014, 08:09 PM   #34
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

I understood your post perfectly.

You're just wrong, is all. That's why there are 55 PAGES in MA specifically dedicated to those things you call "very rare". And a WEALTH of Star Trek examples of that very tactic- everything from the Enterprise D hiding in the Paulson Nebula to the Founders hiding their entire homeworld in the Omarion Nebula to the intense cat-and-mouse game that took place right NEXT to the Genesis planet in the Mutara Nebula.

Yes, I can see how your argument falling to pieces when you think yourself SO SMART might make you angry. But Star Trek's own canon says you're full of it.

You aren't quite as smart as you think you are.
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Old February 22 2014, 08:14 PM   #35
Edit_XYZ
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

AverageWriter

Did you understand my post? Really?
Then you must have a poor understanding of astronomy - calling dense nebulae anything other than VERY RARE.
Plus - all those trek nebulae you named - except, partially, the Mutara nebula - were seen through by trek sensors.

And, of course, I see you keep quoting out of context to have half a coherent counter-argument. Here's what you keep missing:
"And the most damning part of any large-scale cloak use 'scenario' - including yours; and, of course, of your recent goalpost moving involving nebulae - is that it transforms the romulan war Federation into a gathering of idiots:
In order for a ship to exit a nebula, it must first enter there. During the 'entering' phase, it can be seen, regardless of whether it 'warps' there or whatever. Unless it has a cloak - a technology already known to the Federation.
That's a VERY SIMPLE DEDUCTION, AverageWriter. Only idiots would fail to see it; especially if their life depended on it."

PS - What's with all your out-of-nowhere remarks about my intelligence? Don't tell me you have an inferiority complex.
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Old February 22 2014, 08:21 PM   #36
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

"All those trek nebulae you named - except the magic Mutara nebulae - were seen through by trek sensors"
Again, bull. Not even the Borg could see through the Paulson Nebula and was forced to send out completely random shots into it to try to lure the Enterprise out. And the Omarion Nebula was so well hidden that it remained a secret for ten THOUSAND years- the Federation only found it because Odo's "go home" signal told him to go there.

So you're wrong again, and again and again. Your entire premise is faulty, your arguments are awful, and quite frankly I AM SICK OF TALKING TO YOU.

I'm through with you- this is my last post in this topic. Please leave me alone from now on.
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Old February 22 2014, 08:26 PM   #37
Edit_XYZ
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

AverageWriter

LOL
Frankly, reposting my last 2 posts would be entirely appropriate, seeing how they fully negated your so-called couter-argument. (do watch TNG'the best of both worlds' and DS9'The die is cast' to see how calibrated trek sensors saw through those nebulae).

However, I'll just repost the part that you repeatedly pretended doesn't exist - and that also destroys your 'scenario':
"And the most damning part of any large-scale cloak use 'scenario' - including yours; and, of course, of your recent goalpost moving involving nebulae - is that it transforms the romulan war Federation into a gathering of idiots:
In order for a ship to exit a nebula, it must first enter there. During the 'entering' phase, it can be seen, regardless of whether it 'warps' there or whatever. Unless it has a cloak - a technology already known to the Federation.
That's a VERY SIMPLE DEDUCTION, AverageWriter. Only idiots would fail to see it; especially if their life depended on it."
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Old February 22 2014, 11:41 PM   #38
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

And again, those nebula are EVERYWHERE.

Closest nebula to Earth is about 400 light years and is pretty thin, the first "dense" nebula is 450 light years in another direction.


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Old February 24 2014, 04:52 AM   #39
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

AverageWriter, don't let Edit_XYZ get to you, he's like that with everyone.
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Since when are Remans the same species as Vulcans and Romulans? Just because they have pointed ears and mental abilities? That would make the Ocampa Vulcans too.

Remans are a completely different species.
I always assumed the Remans were Vulcanoid. Kind of like, "You thought the Romulans were evil Vulcans? Just wait until you meet their cousins from the dark side of Remus!"
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Old February 25 2014, 06:28 AM   #40
HopefulRomantic
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

Edit_XYZ and AverageWriter: cut it out.

Grow up and play nice. Plenty of other people on this board disagree daily without being disagreeable. It's really not that hard. Make the effort.

Don't try to pull this crap in another thread, either. Stop it or go somewhere else.

And NO MORE SHOUTING.
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Old February 25 2014, 09:34 AM   #41
AverageWriter
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

HopefulRomantic-
I already left the topic. Note that I haven't posted here for days.
Probably not gonna come back to this site again either.
Bet that'll made XYZ pretty happy.
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Old February 26 2014, 08:27 AM   #42
HopefulRomantic
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

^^ It takes two people to have a fight, son. Just sayin.' If you don't want to argue, you might try... not arguing. Unless you're the good Dr. McCoy, getting the last word is overrated, IMHO.

Since you haven't left yet, why not look around? This is a pretty big board, with lots of cubbyholes to explore and nice people to talk to.

If anyone cares to get this thread back on track, that would be lovely.
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Old February 26 2014, 11:29 AM   #43
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Either ignore the 'Balance of terror's ~'we never saw romulans' one-liner
Or take the line into account and build the storyline accordingly.
That's where the Remans might actually come in handy, all head-on fighting was done against them, whilst the Romulans commanded things from a distance.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I'm thinking that events during the war could be seen during some episodes, showing what the crew did and the impact it had on them.
Something like the regular use of flashbacks in the series Highlander perhaps?
Having never seen Highlander I couldn't say, but flashbacks would be a useful story device. The Pilot would need to start with the final battle of the war, things then go from there.
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Old February 28 2014, 10:38 PM   #44
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

Sorry I'm late to this party...haven't read through the whole thread but a difference would be to make it Earth's war and not The Federations. Also to make it stick more with what was said in BOT "Atomic ships" scrounged up because a true fleet can't be assembled in tome. That sort of thing.

Use tactics seen in hardcore Sci-Fi books...relativity ships, near light-speed tactics. Near light-speed missles.
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Old March 27 2014, 03:31 AM   #45
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Re: How could they do theRomulanWar and make it different than theDomi

Well doesn't the ENT relaunch mention how Romulan ground troops wore full-body masked black armor to conceal their appearance? Maybe that could somehow be a useful story factor in a Romulan War TV series because Jem'hadar don't wear masks.
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