RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,452
Posts: 5,508,499
Members: 25,132
Currently online: 514
Newest member: Commander Balok

TrekToday headlines

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 23 2014, 11:59 PM   #46
BigKrampus
Rear Admiral
 
BigKrampus's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there's BigJake.
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

Meh, Sawyer wouldn't be the first person in history to forget to take the full context into account.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigKrampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 12:04 AM   #47
LOKAI of CHERON
Commodore
 
LOKAI of CHERON's Avatar
 
Location: Post-apocalyptic ruins of my once mighty Homeworld.
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

BillJ wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Honestly, on a most basic level, I find Archons to be a tremendously enjoyable and entertaining episode to watch. That's it really, no further discourse or philosophical analysis etc., is required for me!
+1
BigJake wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Honestly, on a most basic level, I find Archons to be a tremendously enjoyable and entertaining episode to watch.
Spock does indeed get to sock somebody in the jaw. Kirk even gives him a great little quip about it: "Isn't that a little old-fashioned?"
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post

Part of his observation can be attributed to watching the episode on Blu-Ray where '60's era production sins are made more visible than they could have been on DVD or especially as seen on old CRT televisions.
Yeah, but who is so "not getting it" that he would judge older productions based on a very surface-y technical observation? I was watching a few Hitchcock films on blu-ray and not once did I see production standards of the period as a problem, or something preventing me from enjoying an overall great work.


I'm off to fire up my media player and watch this terrific episode before I go to bed. I haven't revisited it in quite a while, and I'm in the perfect frame of mind right now!
__________________
YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.
LOKAI of CHERON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 12:05 AM   #48
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

The lesson to be learned in all this is that science fiction writers shouldn't try to be film and television critics.

Edited to add: Unless they're Harlan Ellison.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 12:08 AM   #49
BigKrampus
Rear Admiral
 
BigKrampus's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there's BigJake.
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

Melakon wrote: View Post
The lesson to be learned in all this is that science fiction writers shouldn't try to be film and television critics.
This is The Future, friend. We're all film and television critics.

Peace, joy and tranquility to you all. Blessed is the TBBS, and all of its posters.
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigKrampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 12:42 AM   #50
Push The Button
Captain
 
Push The Button's Avatar
 
Location: Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

Ok, I'm watching the episode right now. As someone else mentioned, it definitely has a Twilight Zone/Night Gallery sort of creepiness to it, which I'm kind of enjoying.

Does anyone else get the impression that they were deliberately trying to mimic Salt Lake City circa 1880 with the set design and costuming? Not to mention the backhanded slap at religion in general, as represented by the "Cult of Landru?"
__________________
Check the circuit!
Mr. Spock, The Cage
(The very first line of dialogue in the series)
Push The Button is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 01:39 AM   #51
The Old Building & Loan
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Building & Loan's Avatar
 
Location: Bedford Falls
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

I find it hard to buy that he's a big TOS fan when he can nitpick a particular episode for using backlot exteriors and noticeably-looped dialogue. It makes him seem unfamiliar not only with TOS, but with 60s TV in general...which he's old enough to remember watching first-run. I'm a decade younger than him and I don't blink at the production values of that period of TV, never mind let it ruin otherwise-entertaining shows.
__________________
The Old Mixer, chillin' in Connecticut.
The Old Building & Loan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 01:44 AM   #52
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I find it hard to buy that he's a big TOS fan when he can nitpick a particular episode for using backlot exteriors and noticeably-looped dialogue. It makes him seem unfamiliar not only with TOS, but with 60s TV in general...which he's old enough to remember watching first-run. I'm a decade younger than him and I don't blink at the production values of that period of TV, never mind let it ruin otherwise-entertaining shows.
I can testify he is a big TOS fan but, of course, like many others here on the TBBS we can disagree on what works (or not) for each of us individually.

That said I have posted some refutation of his points on his FB discussion.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 08:25 AM   #53
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
I have no clue who Robert Sawyer is, nor do I care frankly.
Sawyer almost wrote a Star Trek novel once (featuring Arex from Filmation's TAS!), and his proposal and sample chapters gave birth to two later original SF novels:
http://www.sfwriter.com/armada.htm

For me, I think my major problem with "Return of the Archons" was the 12-hour clock on the alien planet. How much cooler if it had alien numerals, or just ten digits?
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 02:42 PM   #54
Vandervecken
Commander
 
Vandervecken's Avatar
 
Location: Kobold
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

Organia isn't a PD situation because it's a war-with-another-galactic-power situation. Obviously Starfleet doesn't give a rat's @ss about the PD in that sitch.

"Archons" is a PD situation. And as far I understand the PD, it does not matter if the people of the world chose their current culture/civilization or not: what matters is that's what the Enterprise found, and that's how they should leave it. Period. No debate. UNLESS---the Enterprise (or whatever ship is visiting) is in danger from the planet/culture/civilization. Then the PD is set aside.

The problem is Kirk may have had an opportunity to scram unscathed and un-PD-breaking (or as little as could be managed) when he had O'Neil back safely. As Lindstrom lampshaded:

LINDSTROM: Captain, now that we've got Lieutenant O'Neil, let's beam up out of here.

Lindstrom was right (even if he probably was just thinking of getting out of the creepy place and not the PD)--although only minutes (maybe half an hour?) later Kirk is in contact with Scotty and finding out the Enterprise is under deadly attack. If Landru's heat beams were trained on the Enterprise before O'Neil was saved, then Kirk was not violating the PD.

Although one might think the PD would require the sacrifice of a few personnel, if not one's whole ship, and perhaps they should have written O'Neil off from the beginning. Which raises another issue: WHY wouldn't the transporter beam O'Neil up at the beginning? Couldn't they locate him via his communicator? It sure doesn't look like there was enough time between Sulu's desperate communication at the beginning and his beam up for the lawgivers to take all of O'Neil's equipment. It was seconds.
__________________
"Mu hah hah ha! And when they give me Battlestar Galactica that'll be the trifecta! My red matter and action movie scripts are unstoppable!"--JJ "Destroyer of Worlds" Abrams
Vandervecken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 04:26 PM   #55
GeorgeKirk
Commodore
 
GeorgeKirk's Avatar
 
Location: The Internet
View GeorgeKirk's Twitter Profile
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

I also enjoy this episode's Twilight Zone vibe. Honestly, at this point in time every episode has been thoroughly dissected, analyzed, and reviewed by everyone and their brother. If someone expresses an opinion different from your own, why even bother to dispute it?
__________________
futureprobe
GeorgeKirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 04:31 PM   #56
BigKrampus
Rear Admiral
 
BigKrampus's Avatar
 
Location: No matter where you go, there's BigJake.
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

^ Dude. This is the Internet. Do you have any idea the possible cosmic ramifications of allowing someone to be wrong on the Internet?
__________________
Weasels rip BigJake's flesh!
"I wanna read more" - Dennis "I . . . agree with everything you said" - SPCTRE "I blame Cracked" - J. Allen "Take me off" - The Stig
BigKrampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 05:16 PM   #57
LOKAI of CHERON
Commodore
 
LOKAI of CHERON's Avatar
 
Location: Post-apocalyptic ruins of my once mighty Homeworld.
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

GeorgeKirk wrote: View Post
Honestly, at this point in time every episode has been thoroughly dissected, analyzed, and reviewed by everyone and their brother. If someone expresses an opinion different from your own, why even bother to dispute it?
Why not? This is an opinion based BBS, if members here posted opinion (or reported opinion) and nobody responded - it'd be an excruciatingly dull place to hang out.

Although, as previously stated, I just love this episode plain and simple - I don't believe its age, or the accrued body of analysis attached to it, should prohibit further discussion for anyone who wishes to do so.
__________________
YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.
LOKAI of CHERON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 05:25 PM   #58
Ho Ho Homeier
Vice Admiral
 
Ho Ho Homeier's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's place
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

BigJake wrote: View Post
^ Dude. This is the Internet. Do you have any idea the possible cosmic ramifications of allowing someone to be wrong on the Internet?
This is correct. Allowing a false perception by an Individual to go uncorrected by the teeming masses could result in future generations reading said Individual's false perception and believing it to be valid truth. This could have the unfortunate result of the entire collapse of human civilization within 50,000 years and possibly the destruction of the universe.
__________________
Curly: Oh, you hit Santa Claus. Just for that, no toys! --Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Ho Ho Homeier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 05:26 PM   #59
Haggis and tatties
Rear Admiral
 
Haggis and tatties's Avatar
 
Location: Glasgow
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

First time a saw this episode i stopped it to look for what i thought was a previous episode i had missed because it was called the Return of the Archons. lol


__________________

Haggis and tatties is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2014, 07:51 PM   #60
Armored Saint
Fleet Captain
 
Armored Saint's Avatar
 
Location: Quebec City
Re: Robert Sawyer goes off on "Return of the Archons"

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I find it hard to buy that he's a big TOS fan when he can nitpick a particular episode for using backlot exteriors and noticeably-looped dialogue. It makes him seem unfamiliar not only with TOS, but with 60s TV in general...which he's old enough to remember watching first-run. I'm a decade younger than him and I don't blink at the production values of that period of TV, never mind let it ruin otherwise-entertaining shows.
I can testify he is a big TOS fan but, of course, like many others here on the TBBS we can disagree on what works (or not) for each of us individually.

That said I have posted some refutation of his points on his FB discussion.
Do you think he may have exaggerated to simply initiate a debate about an episode he doesn't like?
Armored Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.