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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 22 2014, 12:45 AM   #61
Timewalker
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

scotpens wrote: View Post
But then, it also says Spock's "other" name is Xtmprszntwlfd.
That's been around for decades as well. The people who write the Valjiir Continuum stories (see my sig) decided to use it as the clan name for Spock's family.

Thus, Amanda's line in "Journey to Babel" and the conversation Spock has with Leila Kalomi in "This Side of Paradise" about Spock's family name being unpronounceable are not unreasonable at all.
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Old March 22 2014, 12:56 AM   #62
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Thus, Amanda's line in "Journey to Babel" and the conversation Spock has with Leila Kalomi in "This Side of Paradise" about Spock's family name being unpronounceable are not unreasonable at all.
Totally pronounceable! Let's do this:

Xtm

Shtim

prszn

pir-szin

Eastern European consonant clusters, holla! But now it gets tricky:

twl

tul-

(Sort of Welsh Gaelic-ish)

fd

-fud.

(And there again.)

So, Shtimpirszintulfud. No problem.

Ye Gods, for the delightfully bonkers days when you could just throw any old consonants together and have an Alien Name.
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Old March 22 2014, 01:01 AM   #63
Santa Kang
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

^Now trick him into saying it backwards.
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Old March 22 2014, 01:04 AM   #64
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

With the "you couldn't pronounce it" business, I always imagined Spock's first name was similar to Superman's pain in the ass, Mr. Mxyzptlk.
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Old March 22 2014, 01:07 AM   #65
Timewalker
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

BigJake wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Thus, Amanda's line in "Journey to Babel" and the conversation Spock has with Leila Kalomi in "This Side of Paradise" about Spock's family name being unpronounceable are not unreasonable at all.
Totally pronounceable! Let's do this:

Xtm

Shtim

prszn

pir-szin

Eastern European consonant clusters, holla! But now it gets tricky:

twl

tul-

(Sort of Welsh Gaelic-ish)

fd

-fud.

(And there again.)

So, Shtimpirszintulfud. No problem.

Ye Gods, for the delightfully bonkers days when you could just throw any old consonants together and have an Alien Name.
How do we know Vulcans don't pronounce their "X"s like zeds, or "k" or... "x"?
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Old March 22 2014, 01:32 AM   #66
Santa Kang
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Timewalker wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Thus, Amanda's line in "Journey to Babel" and the conversation Spock has with Leila Kalomi in "This Side of Paradise" about Spock's family name being unpronounceable are not unreasonable at all.
Totally pronounceable! Let's do this:

Xtm

Shtim

prszn

pir-szin

Eastern European consonant clusters, holla! But now it gets tricky:

twl

tul-

(Sort of Welsh Gaelic-ish)

fd

-fud.

(And there again.)

So, Shtimpirszintulfud. No problem.

Ye Gods, for the delightfully bonkers days when you could just throw any old consonants together and have an Alien Name.
How do we know Vulcans don't pronounce their "X"s like zeds, or "k" or... "x"?
"Z", Vulcans use 'Merican pronunciation.
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Old March 22 2014, 08:20 AM   #67
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Thanks to Harvey. Emphasis mine.

TO: All Concerned
FROM: Gene Roddenberry
DATE: 4-20-66
SUBJECT: Finalized STAR TREK Running Characters
...
SULU -- Ship’s helmsman, to be played by actor George Takei. You saw this same actor in the pilot as ship’s physicist. However, since that role was not too identified, we are moving Sulu up to the helmsman position where greater use of the character is expected. Although an Oriental, Sulu is contemporary American in speech and manner. His exact ancestry will probably never be indicated.
However, he does have something of a Japanese characterization in one thing -- his hobby of space-botany...
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Old March 23 2014, 03:08 AM   #68
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

^ Thanks, Maurice. Good info.

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
About the motive for creating Chekov, I think the Davy Jones idea is the most reasonable. The Monkees originally aired on NBC beginning in the fall of 1966--a year before the introduction of Chekov in TOS season 2, so it seems Monkee-mania was so potent, NBC (and/or GR) desired that same kind of feel pushed into TOS (after watching the tone of season 1), in a way that would fit. He was not singing, or getting into romance of the week, but just his presence (character age factor, wig, etc.) had the potential to draw in younger, female viewers.

I guess we should be thankful Chekov wasn't given singing scenes like early Uhura was. Regarding the Monkees connection, here's a box item from Shatner's 1993 TV Guide article:

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Old March 23 2014, 03:49 AM   #69
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Interesting posts. Thanks guys.

Best thing I learned is half of the Enterprise bridge crew is Russian Jewish in origin, even the alien
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Old March 23 2014, 03:25 PM   #70
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
About the motive for creating Chekov, I think the Davy Jones idea is the most reasonable.



At least they didn't use Mike Nesmith and his dorky hat as the basis for Chekov. It spared us from hearing that Liquid Paper was also a Russian inwention.
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Old June 27 2014, 05:57 PM   #71
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Interesting posts. Thanks guys.

Best thing I learned is half of the Enterprise bridge crew is Russian Jewish in origin, even the alien
Brent Spiner too, and all the Ferengi on DS9 (Shimmerman, Grodencik, Eisenberg, and Shawn). Not necessarily Russian, but they're all Ashkenazic Jews.
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Old June 27 2014, 06:15 PM   #72
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
On a side note, and I realize that the show's famous for getting many distinguished Trek alumni, one reason why I dislike the Big Bang Theory is because Raj is often the target of just so much microaggression from other characters, and when he complains, they handwave it and dismiss it, as if his experiences don't really count (unless, of course, it's a Raj-centric episode).

I don't see that at all. Among the five core characters, I think every one of them receives microagression from all the others, and dishes it out in kind.
I meant racial microaggressions. Nobody among the other five makes fun of the other characters for being ethnically white; most sort of jabs at the others are about personality quirks, habits, and intelligence -- in essence, individual traits rather than stereotypes. And Jewish jokes tend to come from Howard when he's self-depricating (but has no problems adopting a South Asian accent to mock his best friend on occasion).

It's one reason why a few of my South Asian friends in the sciences won't watch the show -- they get enough of those "small" jokes and are told to get over it by their workmates in real life (again, the "It's No Big Deal" handwave); they don't want to watch it in their escapist fiction, either, especially when Raj doesn't call his friends out on it. Raj is a character with a heart of gold and with more career achievements than my friends have at this time, and yet even someone like him isn't immune to race jokes.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Shawnster wrote: View Post
George Takei, a Japanese American actor, requested to not play a stereotype or caricature of a member of his own ethnicity.
Sulu was created to be "Pan-Asian" so that did play to Sulu not being ethnic Japanese ... until they killed that idea in the movies by giving the character a Japanese first name.
Since the name Sulu is a Filipino name, I'd really like to think he's, in some way, part-Filipino himself. But that's never really been confirmed anywhere in the canon, I think.
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Old June 27 2014, 07:54 PM   #73
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Captrek wrote: View Post
GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Interesting posts. Thanks guys.

Best thing I learned is half of the Enterprise bridge crew is Russian Jewish in origin, even the alien
Brent Spiner too, and all the Ferengi on DS9 (Shimmerman, Grodencik, Eisenberg, and Shawn). Not necessarily Russian, but they're all Ashkenazic Jews.
Ashkenazic is more appropriate than Russian, especially considering (if I remember well) since Ashkenazic originally designated Jews of Germany and Sepharadic Jews from (Muslim) Spain. Shatner's grand-parents from his father side were Austrians and Nimoy's parents were Ukrainian. Anyway, the vast majority of North-American Jews are Ashkenazic.
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Old June 28 2014, 08:35 AM   #74
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

From Generations:

Chekov: I was never that young.

Kirk: No..(smiling) you were younger.

That bit always gets me, as it turns out to be one of the last things that Kirk ever says to him. A really nice touch in an otherwise mediocre movie.
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Old June 28 2014, 11:46 AM   #75
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Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
On a side note, and I realize that the show's famous for getting many distinguished Trek alumni, one reason why I dislike the Big Bang Theory is because Raj is often the target of just so much microaggression from other characters, and when he complains, they handwave it and dismiss it, as if his experiences don't really count (unless, of course, it's a Raj-centric episode).

I don't see that at all. Among the five core characters, I think every one of them receives microagression from all the others, and dishes it out in kind.
I meant racial microaggressions. Nobody among the other five makes fun of the other characters for being ethnically white; most sort of jabs at the others are about personality quirks, habits, and intelligence -- in essence, individual traits rather than stereotypes. And Jewish jokes tend to come from Howard when he's self-depricating (but has no problems adopting a South Asian accent to mock his best friend on occasion).

It's one reason why a few of my South Asian friends in the sciences won't watch the show -- they get enough of those "small" jokes and are told to get over it by their workmates in real life (again, the "It's No Big Deal" handwave); they don't want to watch it in their escapist fiction, either, especially when Raj doesn't call his friends out on it. Raj is a character with a heart of gold and with more career achievements than my friends have at this time, and yet even someone like him isn't immune to race jokes.
Raj makes fun of them for being white/american quite a lot... (it would be a bit strange for one white person to make fun of another white person for being white - kind of like a trekkie saying 'You like star trek! Loser!') He also rather reinforces the whole business by making fun of his culture himself on a regular basis. Which i can certainly understand that turning people off, in and of itself - I just really don't see this as a question of Raj being unduly 'attacked' and not standing up for himself (if that were applicable to anyone it would be Sheldon, who usually doesn't understand that people are making fun of him).
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