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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 16 2014, 01:30 AM   #166
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Blu-ray sales are only a small part of it. The studio is future-proofing the series by remastering them. It's either that or they say, "well, I think we've made enough money with these shows, let's just let them die now." You really think there's a chance they'll do that? If there's any more money to squeeze out of these shows, rest assured they'll squeeze.
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Old March 16 2014, 02:22 AM   #167
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Blu-ray sales are only a small part of it. The studio is future-proofing the series by remastering them. It's either that or they say, "well, I think we've made enough money with these shows, let's just let them die now." You really think there's a chance they'll do that? If there's any more money to squeeze out of these shows, rest assured they'll squeeze.
Just let them die? Well, to be honest, with DS9 and VOY, I do think that scenario is a possibility, yes.

As fans, many of us care about the longevity of Trek in all its incarnations, but I do think we're (not necessarily you, Hober) sometimes prone to overestimating the perceived value of it beyond TOS and maybe TNG.

I take your point reference additional revenue streams, but I believe those very same perceptions (and the reality) of DS9/VOY being far less successful hold valid in cold business decisions.

ENT is with us on Blu purely by virtue of its pre-existing readiness for quick and painless release - and on a technical level, they're pretty weak transfers.
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Old March 29 2014, 04:42 AM   #168
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

An interesting footnote from the latest issue of the Eaglemoss Starships Collection, featuring the Cardassian Galor class ship:

The CG version of the Galor class...[has been] upgraded making it suitable for use in print and capable of being used for an HD broadcast

All of the appearances of the Galor in TNG used the physical studio model, along with the early appearances in DS9. The CG model was made later in DS9's run.

Two key points that I took away from this:

1) CBS still has original CG files for the Galor class, which lends me to believe the "reconstructing the CG from scratch" to not be as big of an issue. (That's not to say it's trivial, but it's much better than starting from scratch or having to negotiate with now defunct effects houses)

2) The HD upgrade has already been completed for the Galor model, despite it not being needed for TNG, since it used the studio model. Granted, they could have made the upgrades as a safety precaution just in case the model shots were unusable (as has been the case previously), but I personally think this is a good sign that they're looking forward to giving DS9 the full HD treatment.


That said, the other issue this month was the Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser. They briefly discussed the CG model, but nothing outside of the scope of the series itself. They also released the Defiant and the DS9 station previously, which, IIRC, got similar treatments to the Battlecruiser. The CG was discussed within the context of the show, but no hints as to the current state of the model as was done for the Galor.
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Old March 29 2014, 01:09 PM   #169
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Just let them die? Well, to be honest, with DS9 and VOY, I do think that scenario is a possibility, yes.
I think, there could be a compromise situation (like for example done with X-Files): The film source material is scanned and cut mostly automatically by software (in 4:3 ratio). Scenes with special effects are upscaled (plus sharpened and color corrected to fit the HD material) - maybe some compromises there with green-screen areas replaced with the SD material (SD picture overlayed with the HD picture, but the green screen area cut out, like with a matte painting).

That would enable CBS to create a 80% HD version of DS9 and VOY for a reasonable price. So if a HD TV station (or internet stream service) wants to braodcast them, CBS can say: There you are.

But it wont be a high quality makeover like with TNG, it will be a quick'n'dirty transfer to HD for DS9 and VOY.

Last edited by Salinga; March 29 2014 at 01:27 PM.
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Old March 29 2014, 01:32 PM   #170
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Always fun to see people stating opinion as fact.
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Old March 29 2014, 03:19 PM   #171
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Tosk wrote: View Post
Always fun to see people stating opinion as fact.
No idea who you're referring to specifically, but I don't think it's necessary for members comments to be preceded or bookended with a variant of "IMO" in every post. Particularly as the TREK BBS is an opinion based forum.
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Old March 29 2014, 04:33 PM   #172
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

I agree, it's not necessary to do that.
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Old March 29 2014, 04:44 PM   #173
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Salinga wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Just let them die? Well, to be honest, with DS9 and VOY, I do think that scenario is a possibility, yes.
I think, there could be a compromise situation (like for example done with X-Files): The film source material is scanned and cut mostly automatically by software (in 4:3 ratio). Scenes with special effects are upscaled (plus sharpened and color corrected to fit the HD material) - maybe some compromises there with green-screen areas replaced with the SD material (SD picture overlayed with the HD picture, but the green screen area cut out, like with a matte painting).

That would enable CBS to create a 80% HD version of DS9 and VOY for a reasonable price. So if a HD TV station (or internet stream service) wants to braodcast them, CBS can say: There you are.

But it wont be a high quality makeover like with TNG, it will be a quick'n'dirty transfer to HD for DS9 and VOY.
Personally, I'm still crossing my fingers for the "full treatment" as it were - I'd love to see DS9 presented in the same way as TNG on Blu. But, I'd be willing to at least sample transfers of the type you're suggesting.

Indeed, a sampler disc à la TNG's "The Next Level" wouldn't go amiss!
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Old March 29 2014, 05:39 PM   #174
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Start Wreck wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
In DS9's case, it's the fact that all of the editing was done on videotape. That destroyed the HD resolution right away. From then on, DS9 maxed out at 480i. That's why it has to be remastered for HD.
That explains why it needs to be remastered; it doesn't explain why it needs to be modified.
There are certain things that are obvious mistakes and MUST be modified, such as:

- the second Defiant still having the first one's NX-74205 registry number

- all those ships with no names or numbers at all, particularly Galaxy-class ships in the battle scenes

But those are relatively few.

I think that for most people, those issues really aren't a MUST. There really are only a handfull of continuity-buffs who have huge issues with those things, and CBS isn't going spend a shitload of extra money to have that fixed if all they have to do is re-render excisting files.
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Old March 29 2014, 06:47 PM   #175
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
There are certain things that are obvious mistakes and MUST be modified, such as:

- the second Defiant still having the first one's NX-74205 registry number

- all those ships with no names or numbers at all, particularly Galaxy-class ships in the battle scenes

But those are relatively few.
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Old March 29 2014, 10:34 PM   #176
MacLeod
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

The earlier seasons of DSN would be slightly easier to do re-master as like TNG weren't they mainly shot on film with little use of CGI (true there some like Odo's morph) as for later seasons, from articles on places like Trekcore it seemes as if at least some of the CGI models were over-engineered for the needs of SD. So minimal work might be need on some of CGI models..
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Old March 30 2014, 01:23 AM   #177
Robert Comsol
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Tosk wrote: View Post
I agree, it's not necessary to do that.
I think, believe and presume that apparently there could be the possibility that it has become necessary to, indeed, add an IMHO (or IMBO = In my biased opinion) after every sentence you write.

This has been a major criticism in another thread which has recently been closed (apparently because of aforementioned failure to suficiently add "IMHOs").

Bob
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Old March 30 2014, 02:36 AM   #178
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" was upscaled for the original ST second season blu-ray. It's as good as it can possibly ever look -- which isn't very good. I doubt the studio was happy with it, and I've no doubt they'll go the extra mile and do DS9 the right way.
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Old March 30 2014, 09:59 PM   #179
DS9forever
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

^ It was only included as a special feature so I don't think they spent much on it.
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Old March 30 2014, 10:04 PM   #180
Dukhat
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
This has been a major criticism in another thread which has recently been closed (apparently because of aforementioned failure to suficiently add "IMHOs").

Bob
That wasn't why it was closed. You have no one to blame about its closing but yourself. And this has nothing to do with the topic of DS9 on Blu Ray.

If you have some personal beef with me that you felt the need to emphasize a reply I made in a topic that has been closed, I'd suggest you PM me with your concerns instead, as I have no intention of continuing this childishness with you in a public forum, or derailing this thread. And if you continue to bring up any issues you have with me in this public forum, I will alert a moderator of your behavior.
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Last edited by Dukhat; March 30 2014 at 10:29 PM.
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