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Old March 14 2014, 06:25 AM   #61
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

It's an "anachronism" the same way the ship's auto-destruct is. It exists as a last-ditch fallback for an extreme situation. Starfleet's responsibilities include the safety of the Federation and the hundreds of billions of beings therein.
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Old March 14 2014, 06:46 AM   #62
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Part of the problem is also it's status as a "General Order." It is probably just a poor choice of words by the writers. A general order is one of that applies to everyone under the issuing commander's jurisdiction (according to Wikipedia). So it does not really make sense to have a General Order to address an obscure situation. I suppose the full order might say, "in these situations, kill everything." But that's not how it was used in the episode.
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Old March 14 2014, 06:51 AM   #63
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
Part of the problem is also it's status as a "General Order." It is probably just a poor choice of words by the writers. A general order is one of that applies to everyone under the issuing commander's jurisdiction (according to Wikipedia). So it does not really make sense to have a General Order to address an obscure situation. I suppose the full order might say, "in these situations, kill everything." But that's not how it was used in the episode.
How was it used then? It was used as a threat of Armageddon. The only way to eliminate that threat, was to—wait for it—no longer be threatening.
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Old March 14 2014, 07:05 AM   #64
HIjol
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Timo wrote: View Post
Sisko did not kill anyone with the strike..
This is never confirmed in dialogue. All we learn is that he thought he would not. Then again, he also thought he was bombarding a "Maquis planet" - a conceptual whopper of his own concocting, as previously nobody had suggested that any of the DMZ worlds would actually have Maquis members or supporters as a significant minority, let alone a majority. It's a bit like Putin "justly" nuking out all of the US of A because it's factually known to be the nation of Tim McVeighs... And trusting that the inhabitants can still make a clean getaway because the NSA will have overheard Russia planning the nuclear strike and Americans have lots of aircraft.



If everybody down on the planet is a hardened freedom fighter, then 100% of them scampering into their ships in time to escape gruesome death is a defensible assumption. After all, hardened fighters would certainly be prepared to flee a Cardassian attack - why not a Starfleet one? But that's rather unlikely to be the case, unless we are not being told the whole story about the sudden emergence of "Maquis planets".

Timo Saloniemi
Sisko did not kill anyone with the strike...the poison was only fatal to humans, and lasted only 50 years, and the Humans were evacuated by transport ...and he did it in retaliation for and to force the surrender of a terrorist who was targeting Maquis...edgy stuff!!!
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Old March 14 2014, 07:06 AM   #65
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

PhoenixClass wrote:
Part of the problem is also it's status as a "General Order." It is probably just a poor choice of words by the writers. A general order is one of that applies to everyone under the issuing commander's jurisdiction (according to Wikipedia). So it does not really make sense to have a General Order to address an obscure situation. I suppose the full order might say, "in these situations, kill everything." But that's not how it was used in the episode.
How was it used then? It was used as a threat of Armageddon. The only way to eliminate that threat, was to—wait for it—no longer be threatening.


I don't understand what you mean. Am I confusing the facts of the episode? I thought Kirk ordered Scotty to do it because people were being held hostage.
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Old March 14 2014, 07:17 AM   #66
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
"Yo captain, I'm detecting mass quantities of player hate in this sector."

"Superlative, Numbah One, let's get crunk with General Order 24 and blow up their busted-ass planet."

Beeeeeeeeuuuuuuuutiful, Herkimer!!! ...just about to try something similar myself, but you did it better and more effectively!...I think the Warp Core temperatures in here were approaching "Critical"...

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Old March 14 2014, 07:18 AM   #67
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

They're not just hostages. Anan 7 intends to execute all the captured landing parties (including the Ambassador), and then wants the rest of the 430 or so on the Enterprise to surrender themselves for execution as well.
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Old March 14 2014, 07:31 AM   #68
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

As established in the first few minutes of the episode, the Eminians' war had claimed thousands of innocent lives. Their star cluster was a hazard to navigation, because of their war. For whatever reason, avoiding the cluster altogether was not always feasible. There was more at stake than simply the lives of the landing party, or even just the Enterprise. Likely danger to future shipping was also the issue.
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Old March 14 2014, 07:33 AM   #69
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

They are getting the same treatment they give to every ship that comes through their system. General Order 24 works like Gort in 'Day the Earth Stood Still', blow up your planet to your heart's content, involve other worlds and be destroyed. Its not a perfect system, but it works. Had this been the Klingons, assuming the crew didn't die from laughter at the stupidity, it would have been Tuesday clean up the garbage day.
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Old March 14 2014, 04:28 PM   #70
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
They are getting the same treatment they give to every ship that comes through their system. General Order 24 works like Gort in 'Day the Earth Stood Still', blow up your planet to your heart's content, involve other worlds and be destroyed. Its not a perfect system, but it works. Had this been the Klingons, assuming the crew didn't die from laughter at the stupidity, it would have been Tuesday clean up the garbage day.
Nicely put.
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Old March 14 2014, 05:07 PM   #71
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
They are getting the same treatment they give to every ship that comes through their system. General Order 24 works like Gort in 'Day the Earth Stood Still', blow up your planet to your heart's content, involve other worlds and be destroyed. Its not a perfect system, but it works. Had this been the Klingons, assuming the crew didn't die from laughter at the stupidity, it would have been Tuesday clean up the garbage day.
+1
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Old March 14 2014, 05:22 PM   #72
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
They are getting the same treatment they give to every ship that comes through their system. General Order 24 works like Gort in 'Day the Earth Stood Still', blow up your planet to your heart's content, involve other worlds and be destroyed. Its not a perfect system, but it works. Had this been the Klingons, assuming the crew didn't die from laughter at the stupidity, it would have been Tuesday clean up the garbage day.
+1

And another from me...
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Old March 14 2014, 06:16 PM   #73
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

SCOTT

All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system.

In one hour and forty five minutes the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed.

You have that long to surrender your hostages.

*********

Have to admit, not much room for misunderstandings. From reading the posts so far, I no long believe GO 24 is a bluff.

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Old March 14 2014, 06:18 PM   #74
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Gort would have already leveled the planets or turned them into asteroid belts years ago. The only reason they had hostages was because the Federation was trying to play nice.
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Old March 14 2014, 10:33 PM   #75
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
"Yo captain, I'm detecting mass quantities of player hate in this sector."

"Superlative, Numbah One, let's get crunk with General Order 24 and blow up their busted-ass planet."


Space. The final shakedown. These are the voyages of the starship Alonzo Harris. A five-year mission to smoke all that is smokable, mack all that is mackable, and generally howl like a mutha@#!#$in' wolf, son.
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