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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 13 2014, 12:01 AM   #16
Masao
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
In the Starfleet Museum website Kirk first command was named the USS Interceptor.

In February 2260, Kirk was given the command of USS Interceptor (NCC-D243) a Predator-class destroyer assigned to Starfleet Destroyer Squadron 5 (DESRON 5) operating from the destroyer tender USS Siberia (Sahara class, NCC-DT22) just outside the Klingon border at Parchuk IX.
Absolutely love that website.

Don't trust that website! The guy who runs it is absolutely nuts!!!

Seriously, though, I designed that ship to be Kirk's first command so he could learn to be a "sorcerer."
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Old March 13 2014, 12:06 AM   #17
Warped9
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

Nebusj wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
The Archon is referred to as a starship in "Return Of The Archons" and we know it wasn't Constitution-class.
Do we? From canonical sources?
The more I think of it it's indirect. Kirk asks if the beams hitting the Enterprise are powerful enough to destroy a starship, to which Spock relies yes. This is after Reger says Landru pulled the Archons down from the sky.
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Old March 13 2014, 02:56 AM   #18
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post

To be sure, we have never seen a Miranda associated with the "Starship Class" moniker: there are no TOS style dedication plaques to that effect, no onscreen sightings of TOS style Mirandas, and if we venture to fanfic/speculation, we could just as well decide that the putative TOS Miranda dedication plaque would actually read "Frigate Class"...
The Reliant is referred to as a "starship" multiple times in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
Not all starships belong to the "Starship Class." And there is no source evidence to support that the Miranda Class would be part of the "Starship Class."

Of course, there is no consensus of what the "Starship Class" is.
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Old March 13 2014, 10:22 AM   #19
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

...Although statistically, we can tell that about 100% of starships do not belong to it.

After all, the only known representative of Starship Class is NCC-1701, for part of her existence at least. Even her apparent sister ships like the Defiant do not belong to that Class.

Perhaps Kirk got a special plaque, an excellence badge saying that his vessel has attained 100% Star Ship Status - a rare honor indeed if the "Court Martial" chart is any indication!

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Old March 13 2014, 02:24 PM   #20
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

From "Bread and Circuses":

MERIK: He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew. I tried for such a command.

Last year we discussed the terminology of "Starship Class".

Now, Bob Justman stated specifically in The Making of Star Trek that NCC-1701 belonged to the "Enterprise Starship Class" and as the first ship of that class (according to Matt Jefferies) the plaque (U.S.S.) Enterprise Starship Class could have merely been an elegant solution rather than to write a somewhat convoluted U.S.S. Enterprise - Enterprise Class - San Francisco, Calif.

In simpler language: With the class leader you have the luxury to add the "starship" on the plaque. (or "destroyer" wherever appropriate)

According to the Official TMP Blueprints the refit Enterprise ("new Enterprise Class") would have been designated as "Starship Class II".

@ T'Girl

I wholeheartedly agree. And we would have had one name with an alien (opposite to Anglosaxon) ring to it.

Bob
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Old March 13 2014, 02:34 PM   #21
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

During the time of TOS the term starship was used to signify something quite distinctive. But I wouldn't give it too much weight. Factually any vehicle capable of interstellar flight is indeed a starship even if it's slower than light.
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Old March 13 2014, 02:42 PM   #22
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

"Factual" seldom has anything to do with terminology, though. Factually, any fighting vessel in our reality is a battleship, after all, but the special terminology has a special area of application, and a very narrow one at that...

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Old March 13 2014, 03:01 PM   #23
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

I'm afraid we are applying too much retroactive thinking here, which has partially been influenced by the inflation of the term "starship" because of Star Wars and others ("Princess Leia's starship") in the past decades.

Unless someone can tell differently, I believe that 1960's terminology was mostly referring to rocketships, spacecraft and spaceships, so "starship" had a special connotation to it (and was the name for that ill-fated TV series proposal in the 1970's by Gene Roddenberry).

So I'd say that should the context in which to discuss the issue.

Bob
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Old March 13 2014, 03:27 PM   #24
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

IMHO the backstory from TMoST pure conjecture, no more valid than the novels and comics that have later postulated non-destroyer first commands for Kirk. The Enterprise could even be his first command, since I don't recall any canon mention of a prior one.
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Old March 13 2014, 06:01 PM   #25
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

Timo wrote: View Post
"Factual" seldom has anything to do with terminology, though. Factually, any fighting vessel in our reality is a battleship, after all, but the special terminology has a special area of application, and a very narrow one at that...

Timo Saloniemi
My point is I wouldn't get too hung up on how the term starship is utilized in TOS.
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Old March 14 2014, 01:22 AM   #26
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
IMHO the backstory from TMoST pure conjecture, no more valid than the novels and comics that have later postulated non-destroyer first commands for Kirk. The Enterprise could even be his first command, since I don't recall any canon mention of a prior one.
This.
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Old March 14 2014, 01:39 AM   #27
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
IMHO the backstory from TMoST pure conjecture, no more valid than the novels and comics that have later postulated non-destroyer first commands for Kirk. The Enterprise could even be his first command, since I don't recall any canon mention of a prior one.
Some have interpreted Dehner's line in WNMHGB as meaning that.
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Old March 14 2014, 02:03 AM   #28
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
IMHO the backstory from TMoST pure conjecture, no more valid than the novels and comics that have later postulated non-destroyer first commands for Kirk. The Enterprise could even be his first command, since I don't recall any canon mention of a prior one.
Some have interpreted Dehner's line in WNMHGB as meaning that.
Yes. I think it does affirm the point. It also makes much more sense that an officer would have to have at least some prior command experience before being given command of one of Starfleet's best ships.
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Old March 14 2014, 02:54 AM   #29
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

Dehner's line is delivered in such a way as to suggest that she's talking about another ship...and a previous, more military-oriented command is strongly implied in "Whom Gods Destroy", when Garth praises Kirk as having been a great military commander, to which Kirk responds, "I'm mostly an explorer now."
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Old March 14 2014, 03:54 AM   #30
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Re: Kirk's First Command?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Dehner's line is delivered in such a way as to suggest that she's talking about another ship...and a previous, more military-oriented command is strongly implied in "Whom Gods Destroy", when Garth praises Kirk as having been a great military commander, to which Kirk responds, "I'm mostly an explorer now."
But for all we know, all that means is that Kirk was in command of the Enterprise during a more militaristic time in recent history (i.e. the Federation-Klingon conflict which ended in "Errand of Mercy"), and then after that incident there was more time for exploration missions.

It's my opinion as well that the Enterprise was Kirk's first command. He does mention two other ship that he served on in the past (but not as captain), but never mentions a previous command. If the Republic was Ensign Kirk's first assignment after graduating the academy in 2254, and the Farragut was Lt. Kirk's second assignment in 2257, and was captain of the Enterprise at least by 2265, that doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room between being a lieutenant and a starship captain (unless he was in command of the ship without having the rank of captain).
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