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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 7 2014, 01:46 AM   #1
Ro_Laren
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Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

I found a hilarious video on YouTube of Worf on TNG. Poor Worf: I never even noticed how many times his ideas were shot down on TNG!
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Old March 7 2014, 05:39 AM   #2
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

It happened all the way up to the very end, as well. Worf's advice upon seeing Shinzon's ship in Nemesis is to raise defences, but Picard quickly shoots the suggestion down. The Klingon just can't cut himself a lucky break!
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Old March 7 2014, 11:20 PM   #3
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Even Kurn in Redemption part II didn't listen Worf.
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Old March 8 2014, 03:47 AM   #4
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

"We cannot just sit here."

Crew sits down.
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Old March 9 2014, 10:34 PM   #5
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Much of the time his suggestions were rash and impulsive, a bit too far to go for a peaceful ship of exploration. But there were also a couple of times where his suggestion was pretty good. Like the time he recommends that they don't dick around with a suspicious, unknown, anomaly and they end up trapped in it.
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Old March 13 2014, 03:41 AM   #6
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

What makes it even more interesting is how much better his ideas and suggestions go over once he transfers to Deep Space 9. Sisko's much more willing to try whatever he comes up with.
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Old March 13 2014, 08:49 AM   #7
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

I guess it's also the writing... TNG has the utopian view of the Federation, and the Klingons are seen as barbarians.

Despite the stated ideal of diversity, it seems some views are more respected than others, and the dominant culture gets its way far more than the minority view.

The trope of the Klingon way being the barbaric one is used way too much...it's like none of the writers has seen the previous episode where Worf gets rejected.

DS9 takes a more realistic approach, and since Worf came in during the DOminion war, his war-like tendencies make more sense in context.
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Old March 13 2014, 11:34 AM   #8
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Ey, I don't think it's necessarily an anti-Klingon (or even anti-Worf) sentiment. It's just Picard's usual reaction to everything his security officer says. He does it to Tasha Yar as well:

From Encounter At Farpoint, when Tasha suggests fighting the Q bubble:

TASHA: Will we make a fight of it, Captain? If we can at least damage their ship we'll have a chance...


PICARD (cutting in): Lieutenant, are you recommending we fight a life form that can do all those things?
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Old March 13 2014, 04:44 PM   #9
Clark Terrell
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Morpheus 02 wrote: View Post
The trope of the Klingon way being the barbaric one is used way too much...it's like none of the writers has seen the previous episode where Worf gets rejected.
I blame some of that on Ron Moore. I think Klingons were written and portrayed the best in The Undiscovered Country. Their warrior culture was still present, but they-- aside from Change and his ilk-- behaved much more reasonably and showed potential to be on equal footing with the Federation in the future. The Klingons of TNG are depicted as child-like savages who care only about drinking, fighting and dying.
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Old March 13 2014, 07:25 PM   #10
Morpheus 02
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Clark Terrell wrote: View Post
Morpheus 02 wrote: View Post
The trope of the Klingon way being the barbaric one is used way too much...it's like none of the writers has seen the previous episode where Worf gets rejected.
I blame some of that on Ron Moore. I think Klingons were written and portrayed the best in The Undiscovered Country. Their warrior culture was still present, but they-- aside from Change and his ilk-- behaved much more reasonably and showed potential to be on equal footing with the Federation in the future. The Klingons of TNG are depicted as child-like savages who care only about drinking, fighting and dying.
Some of what we saw in TNG was internal politics with a culture at a crossroads. We have also seen Klingon lawyers, who while Klingon in their aggressiveness and waging legal war -- were at least good at their job.

Picard & Riker (to a lesser degree) seem to never be wrong... I think when Riker was temporarily the Klingon 1st Officer -- that showed the Klingons as a different but not inferior culture.
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Old March 13 2014, 10:30 PM   #11
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Lance wrote: View Post
Ey, I don't think it's necessarily an anti-Klingon (or even anti-Worf) sentiment. It's just Picard's usual reaction to everything his security officer says. He does it to Tasha Yar as well
It could have stayed like that with Tasha if she hadn't been killed. The security officer has to analyse the situation as a security officer, not as a counsellor, so the security officer's advice is naturally more about making pew-pew or being cautious and not curious.
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Old March 14 2014, 12:09 AM   #12
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Clark Terrell wrote: View Post
What makes it even more interesting is how much better his ideas and suggestions go over once he transfers to Deep Space 9. Sisko's much more willing to try whatever he comes up with.
That's a good point. As someone else mentioned in this thread, part of that could be due to the fact that Worf transferred there around the time of the Dominion War. But, I think that this points also highlights the differences between Picard and Worf.
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Old March 14 2014, 12:34 AM   #13
Clark Terrell
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
That's a good point. As someone else mentioned in this thread, part of that could be due to the fact that Worf transferred there around the time of the Dominion War. But, I think that this points also highlights the differences between Picard and Worf.
Or Picard and Sisko, for that matter.
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Old March 14 2014, 05:14 PM   #14
Ro_Laren
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

Clark Terrell wrote: View Post
Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
That's a good point. As someone else mentioned in this thread, part of that could be due to the fact that Worf transferred there around the time of the Dominion War. But, I think that this points also highlights the differences between Picard and Worf.
Or Picard and Sisko, for that matter.
Whoops! I meant to type Picard and Sisko, lol!
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Old March 15 2014, 07:51 PM   #15
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Re: Worf's Ideas & Desires Sure Were Rejected A Lot!

There's a great line in the novel Doomsday World (Peter David, Michael Jan Friedman, Bob Greenberger, and Carmen Carter) about this very thing. Data says what he learned on the mission about being a leader. Geordi says what he learned on the mission about grief. (A friend of his had died.) And Worf says to Data and Geordi's surprise that he, too, had learned something (paraphrasing from memory):

"If I had been allowed to do what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it, we would have had fewer problems."
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