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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 10 2014, 04:06 PM   #4996
F. King Daniel
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
I want someone professional in his job. Training gets rid of things like nerves, because you can rely on the training. You seem to forget they are doing a job.
Yeah, it's the kind of error you'd expect at best from a talented but very inexperienced officer.

Which to be fair is exactly what NuKirk is. Everything about him really does make sense... except his being a Captain at this stage of his life.
On the scale of 1 to "not raising shields when the Reliant is approaching under proven bullshit circumstances", it's a 1.

Kirk is imperfect, in any timeline, and no movie can survive a hostile reviewing. Anyone's favourite episode or movie can be similarly selectively nitpicked.
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Old March 10 2014, 04:18 PM   #4997
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

On the scale of 1 to "not raising shields when the Reliant is approaching under proven bullshit circumstances", it's a 1.

Kirk is imperfect, in any timeline, and no movie can survive a hostile reviewing. Anyone's favourite episode or movie can be similarly selectively nitpicked.
Come on now!!! We all know Abramsverse Kirk is the only starship captain from any series or movie to make a major first-year cadet blunder!

We also know that Abramsverse Kirk is the only starship captain in any series or movie that has a huge ego and thinks that he knows better than Starfleet Command!
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Old March 10 2014, 04:50 PM   #4998
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Kirk is imperfect, in any timeline,
Meh, there's imperfect and imperfect. TOS Kirk had a believable skillset for a Starship Captain, perfect or not. (And TWOK Kirk's errors came from rustiness*.)



NuTrek Kirk does have a believable skillset and make believable errors for an inexperienced officer. But he doesn't have a believable skillset for a Starship Captain. He's crafted this way, that's his arc in STiD: he starts out being unable to admit error or accept the qualities and judgments of his fellow officers (major gaps in a Starship Captain's character), and by the end of the film learns to do so.

The only thing about that picture that really doesn't make sense is why he's Captain of a Starship in the first place. It's a hard question to avoid when the whole character arc is built around his not having the qualities of a Captain.

Oh, and:

and no movie can survive a hostile reviewing.
"Hostile reviewing"? I've gone out of my way to be fair in my assessment of NuTrek's elements whether I particularly like them or not, so I'll thank you to knock this kind of nonsense off.
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Old March 10 2014, 05:14 PM   #4999
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

continuity tailgunning that's become fashionable since NuTrek decided to put itself in the same frame with TWOK.
I'm not sure what this means. Haven't people been vilifying Abrams Trek for things earlier Trek also did since the 2009 film?
[ The most mind-bendingly hilarious example of which is still ( IMO ) a certain poster taking issue with the content of the "these are the voyages" speech. ]
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Old March 10 2014, 05:18 PM   #5000
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Set Harth wrote: View Post
continuity tailgunning that's become fashionable since NuTrek decided to put itself in the same frame with TWOK.
I'm not sure what this means.
It means that when they put Khan in the film and mirror-imaged a specific sequence out of TWOK, the creative team of STiD encouraged comparisons between their movie and the earlier film which have happened, and which some people are plainly quite defensive about.

(EDIT: Of course it can be fairly said that many, many other Trek films have made the mistake of trying to be Wrath, as pointed out here. But directly cribbing from Wrath is at a new level.)
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Old March 11 2014, 02:58 AM   #5001
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Kirk is a starship captain for reasons both in and out of universe.

It's Star Trek, sans :TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT. It requires Captain (not Commander, Lieutenant, Ensign or Chief Petty Officer) Kirk to be in the chair. It was always going to be thus.

In-story: Blame Pike and Nero. Nero wiped out a bunch of ships (and a considerable number of officers) and Pike was in such a hurry to inject the "look before you leap" element he got Kirk in the chair. Too soon, as it turned out. I get that the reversal was lightning quick in the sequel, but imperfect execution does not mean it was not addressed. Part of that quick reversal, though, reflects Marcus' belief that Kirk could be easily manipulated--a more experienced captain might well have taken the time to examine things a bit more fully BEFORE taking off from Earth. So Kirk is twice put in the chair by people who value the fact that he's not like everyone (anyone?) else in Starfleet--one naively and one nefariously. It's not Kirk's fault they keep giving him the chair.

My sense is that a lot of the complaints made about the way Kirk "gets the chair" are the result of the compressed nature of film vs. TV series storytelling. This is not to say the films are perfect and people are too stubborn to accept it (I quite like them, but they're not in my top 100 films of all time or anything). And not all the criticisms of the film can be explained by this reasoning. However, I do think a substantial amount of criticism is levelled at certain story elements being necessarily compressed (which is a separate point than done well).

I find it refreshing that the characters are not yet as cohesive a unit as in TOS. They are, after all, a decade or so younger and less experienced. But that's me.
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Old March 11 2014, 03:31 AM   #5002
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
I want someone professional in his job. Training gets rid of things like nerves, because you can rely on the training. You seem to forget they are doing a job.
Yeah, it's the kind of error you'd expect at best from a talented but very inexperienced officer.

Which to be fair is exactly what NuKirk is. Everything about him really does make sense... except his being a Captain at this stage of his life.
On the scale of 1 to "not raising shields when the Reliant is approaching under proven bullshit circumstances", it's a 1.

Kirk is imperfect, in any timeline, and no movie can survive a hostile reviewing. Anyone's favourite episode or movie can be similarly selectively nitpicked.
This exactly. If someone is set against something, then every minor nitpick is a glaring lack of competence. There's no way around that mindset.
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Old March 11 2014, 03:54 AM   #5003
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
If someone is set against something, then every minor nitpick is a glaring lack of competence.
FFS. Nobody spends money on seeing a movie if they're "set against" it entertaining them, and major character arcs are not a "minor nitpick," and this aggression will not stand, man, that rug really tied the room together.
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Old March 11 2014, 04:26 AM   #5004
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
If someone is set against something, then every minor nitpick is a glaring lack of competence.
FFS. Nobody spends money on seeing a movie if they're "set against" it entertaining them, and major character arcs are not a "minor nitpick," and this aggression will not stand, man, that rug really tied the room together.
Shut the fuck up, Donny.
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Old March 11 2014, 04:35 AM   #5005
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BigJake wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
If someone is set against something, then every minor nitpick is a glaring lack of competence.
FFS. Nobody spends money on seeing a movie if they're "set against" it entertaining them, and major character arcs are not a "minor nitpick," and this aggression will not stand, man, that rug really tied the room together.


I guess I can't argue with the Dude.
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Old March 23 2014, 02:24 AM   #5006
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Watching Into Darkness now on EPIX. Still an incredibly entertaining movie to watch.
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Old March 29 2014, 04:50 AM   #5007
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The overall feedback of this movie was great, but when I talk to Trek fans online its really weird. Even DS9 fans....

It's the closest we will get to a DS9 movie imo..

I mean it was way better than 2009, but as I said earlier, for whatever reason, I saw this movie less and don't enjoy it as much?
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Old April 8 2014, 02:54 AM   #5008
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I wasn't able to enjoy this on as much as the 2009 one. Because this one reused the villain from and a major scene from a previous movie I was always thinking how much better they were able to pull it in wrath of khan. In the 2009 they were doing their own thing, with their own story, in their own universe. This time, because of khan, was thinking how much better it would have been if it hadn't been khan. The so called dramatic reveal wasn't dramatic because I saw it coming from the preview. If cumberbatch had instead been one of khans subordinates rather than him himself, trying to FREE khan and his people, and then built cumberbatch as a badass loading khan as a bigger badass he was willing to follow out of respect, that would have added a layer of menace to his actions that was lacking. HE wasn't the big bad, he was trying to FREE the big bad.

Oh, and can someone tell me why you would hide a starship underwater rather than in space? Please? Other than to dramatically reveal it of course. Again you could have had almost same dramatic entrance with the enterprise diving in from space, with the excuse being that in order to get a transporter lock on Spock through the interference created by the volcano the had to get right on top of it.

Also, cure for death in khan blood? Death by radiation poisoning is the next best thing to immolation or dissolving in terms of making sure someone stays dead. It destroys on a cellular and molecular level, your DNA is Swiss cheese after. In the middle of a pitch battle with casualties presumably coming in from all over the ship, McCoy takes time from treating injured and dying people to test "what would happen if I shot this dead gribble I happen to have with some Khan blood for almost no reason". Why?

Also, have some issues with this movie btw.

Oh, but I did think of a convincing reason why the enterprise was able to barrel up to the front door of the capital world of their mortal enemies, then follow that up by flying to the planet and getting involved with a shoutout with a Klingon patrol, without a major and immediate but whooping. If the moon in orbit of Kronos, was in fact praxis (somehow), than it may be that the planet had been evacuated p, as it had needed to be in the Undiscovered Country, and that the planet was essentially abandoned and unguarded, but still to deep in Klingon space for the federation to risk sending a ship.

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Old April 8 2014, 10:27 AM   #5009
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Marion85 wrote: View Post
Oh, and can someone tell me why you would hide a starship underwater rather than in space? Please? Other than to dramatically reveal it of course. Again you could have had almost same dramatic entrance with the enterprise diving in from space, with the excuse being that in order to get a transporter lock on Spock through the interference created by the volcano the had to get right on top of it.
I like to think they were hiding the Enterprise under the ash cloud to avoid Starfleet's long-range sensors seeing Kirk break the Prime Directive. And under the water to hide from the natives.

Something very similar happened in Insurrection, where a Federation holoship was hidden from the Ba'ku under water. I bet it's takeoff looked awesome too... if they'd bothered to show it.
Also, cure for death in khan blood? Death by radiation poisoning is the next best thing to immolation or dissolving in terms of making sure someone stays dead. It destroys on a cellular and molecular level, your DNA is Swiss cheese after.
Nuclear war and it's repercussions are exactly the kind of thing Khan would have been engineered to survive.
In the middle of a pitch battle with casualties presumably coming in from all over the ship, McCoy takes time from treating injured and dying people to test "what would happen if I shot this dead gribble I happen to have with some Khan blood for almost no reason". Why?
"Khan's blood regenerates like nothing I've ever seen, and I wanna know why."
Sickbay looked to be under control at the time.
Also, have some issues with this movie btw.

Oh, but I did think of a convincing reason why the enterprise was able to barrel up to the front door of the capital world of their mortal enemies, then follow that up by flying to the planet and getting involved with a shoutout with a Klingon patrol, without a major and immediate but whooping. If the moon in orbit of Kronos, was in fact praxis (somehow), than it may be that the planet had been evacuated p, as it had needed to be in the Undiscovered Country, and that the planet was essentially abandoned and unguarded, but still to deep in Klingon space for the federation to risk sending a ship.
The Enterprise was parked on the Federation/Klingon border, and they flew the rest of the way in a civilian trade ship. Yes, the province they were going to was uninhabited (we're told when Kirk tells Marcus his plan to capture Harrison), having been evacuated presumably because of Praxis.
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Old April 9 2014, 04:22 AM   #5010
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:
The Enterprise was parked on the Federation/Klingon border
Which appears to be practically on Kronos' doorstep, since you can see Kronos in the distance when the Mudd ship leaves the Enterprise.
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